"My own viewing of the film" + "Mel does a Tarantino job on Christ"

My own viewing of the film ^ | 2004 | 2 authors

[Trinity_Tx]

And a foundational doctrine of Christianity is to show the Fruits of the Spirit.

One can and should live and witness the Christian faith without showing arrogance, pride, sarcasm, rushes to judgement, and the other obnoxious behaviors so rampant even between Christians. (see the religion forum)

We all slip, but when it's pointed out... the response is telling.

Anyway... Here's an interesting thread on the topic.

[Chris Talk]

Air it in Iraq, Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia.

[Green Knight]

Actually, what they depict in the movie is apparently not as violent as it actually was. For instance, they scourged Jesus with a cat-o-nine-tails with hooks at the end, which would tear flesh off one's body. They decided to leave that part out, because it was just to disgusting, watching a man getting scourged with bits of his flesh getting torn out.

[WOSG]

I agree. This is a biased review. The line is *in* the Gospels (Mark?) and is not in any way an excuse for 'collective guilt', a nonsensical view. As Gibson himself has pointed out, how can this really be anti-semetic, when Jesus himself was born in the House of David, his disciples and apostles were all Jewish, everyone but the Roman soldiers living there were Jews.

... Nevertheless, Gibson took out that line because it was one of the points used to make this out to be of concern for the 'anti-semetism' content.

Frankly, I was astounded by the reviews own anti-Catholic bias influencing his own view of it. the reviewer seems to have a 'thing' for the Catholic persepective, as if that is a big problem... well, excuse, me ... It's the same gospel and the same story!

Still, I will reserve my own full judgment until the time I see the movie. This is clearly a must-see movie.

[lavrenti]

I'll add the caveat that I have not seen The Passion but intend to do so.

I have mixed feelings--very mixed feelings about this film from what I have read on multiple sources from a myriad of POVs. What bothers me greatly is the license taken regarding the Praetorium scene. The only "Jews" by any stretch of the historical imagination that I could ever conceive of showing up would be paganized supporters of the Herods, and even that is probably unlikely given the intense nationalism and protectiveness of their cultural and religious identity like the Jews of that period (yeah, can anyone think of a group of that time with the propensity to revolt against conquerors from Syrians to Romans?). To be in that forum as a Jew would be considered a treasonist act against Self, neighbor and God.

The New Testament is clear that the execution of Jesus was a Roman decision, prompted by a collaborationist faction of the priesthood. What anti-Semites never consider in their ravings regarding the execution of Jesus is that question was settled most brutally by the Romans themselves by the destruction of the priesthood after the Revolt. "The Jews" did not kill Jesus, a couple of corrupted toadies backing the Roman government at best "advised" Pilate. They put him on trial, then handed him over to the Romans. Pilate based his decision on his own questioning of Jesus. The execution was for treason, not because Jesus ticked off the Jewish priesthood.

In the descriptions of the scourgings, who held the whip hand? Who placed the crown of thorns? Who chose nails instead of rope? Who beat Jesus on the streets to Golgotha? All the while verbally humilating Him?

Also, that city was quite "multi-cultural". The mobs represented a mixture of the ethnic and religious types that inhabited the area.

Finally, it is true a couple of Romans found it within themselves to be kind. It does not surprise me because His execution was brutal and unusual even by Roman standards.

Again, that was Pilate's decision. All his. A Roman.

The reaction to the film I hope is taken in its proper context, and that the debate remains real and sane. I certainly hope this doesn't turn into another baby on the doorstep.

Those who know that painful aspect of Jewish history understand that reference. It damn well better not happen, again.

[WFTR]

WFTR: Often, the people who were the most "enthusiastic" for their faith were also the most ignorant.

repub32: So you have turned from your faith one day a christian the next not!!!!!!!! sounds like you have no faith in "The word" or it's you who doesnt who know's not what he reads. That is the biggest slap to christ. The truth is in there learn it. Jesus suffered suffered anyway Mel puts it for you and me something Im sure you could never endure.... and the truth is there for everyone to learn Mel Gibson is a soldier and is being attacked by the usual kenite scum....

I forgot to mention that they are also some of the least coherent in many cases. Here we have a case in point. It reminds me of one of the reasons that I don't miss church.

Well, four and a half
Bill

[youngjim]

The New Testament is clear that the execution of Jesus was a Roman decision, prompted by a collaborationist faction of the priesthood. What anti-Semites never consider in their ravings regarding the execution of Jesus is that question was settled most brutally by the Romans themselves by the destruction of the priesthood after the Revolt. "The Jews" did not kill Jesus, a couple of corrupted toadies backing the Roman government at best "advised" Pilate. They put him on trial, then handed him over to the Romans. Pilate based his decision on his own questioning of Jesus. The execution was for treason, not because Jesus ticked off the Jewish priesthood.

Your are contradicted by scripture:

Luke 23:

20 Pilate therefore, willing to release Jesus, spake again to them.

21 But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him.

22 And he said unto them the third time, Why, what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore chastise him, and let him go.

23 And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified: and the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed.

24 And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required.

[Tribune7]

Some viewers left the theatre in tears at the end of the screening and many, including Treasurer Peter Costello and Deputy Prime Minister John Anderson, were visibly shaken. 

Wow.

[Trinity_Tx]

repub32 said: "Mel Gibson is a soldier and is being attacked by the usual kenite scum...."

Ahhh... "kenite scum", huh? Your use of that term clarifies (or should I say, exposes) your perspective, unfortunately.

And some people wonder why many Jews have trouble trusting "Christians"...

To WFTR: I completely agree. And the lack of coherence seems to be especially notable among followers of this particular ideology.

[weegee]

Don't be so quick to say that this is a "Tarantino version" or that older films that dealt with this subject could not also be graphic.

See the IMDB listing of The Lash of The Penitentes (1937)

This film was butchered and no full version has appeared (altough the film has been available on video for over 20 years). It deals with a group of Spanish Catholics who are into flagation and crucifixtion in their religious order. Part documentary, part fiction.

Also remember the violence that the main character endures in Braveheart.

[goldstategop]

Its Mel Gibson's version and presents a very traditional understanding of Christian faith. As a Jew I don't relate to the theology and I can understand why Jews are offended by the elements in the film that seem to recall the ugly deicide charge rightly repudiated by Vatican II. Still the fact of the matter is Mel Gibson has taken a stand and as Rush Limbaugh said to be firm in your beliefs is frowned upon in polite society. The movie I think is resented by liberals less for the way it depicts Jews (and I reject that depiction as virtually Jews do) than for the fact it says faith is as much a part of human nature and carries historical consequences that reverberate down to our day. Gibson's "Passion" if nothing else, is a good illustration of how something that happened thousands of years ago can affect our lives, our politics, our culture, and even the relations between people of different faiths. Its worth thinking about.

[Texas2step]

They sat like strangers in the auditorium, unable to understand the emotional reactions of the Christians around them, and unable to understand, when they spoke with those Christians later, how they could have missed the parts of the film that so troubled the Jews.

And, that statement sums up what this entire controversy is about. The Jews (for the most part) do not understand our scripture. They don't understand what is meant by what is written.

These Jews who saw the film did not see anger on the part of any Christian who watched. They don't understand how the Christians didn't see what they saw, but the Christians are guided what God wants them to see by the Holy Spirit.

Of course, I guess you could say that all the Christians that saw this movie and did not react they way these reviewers did are all anti-Semites already.

Either the Christians are anti-Semitic (which is close to what abe foxman claims), or some Jews just do not have the capacity to understand the New Testament in the same way as the Christians do (which I credit to the Holy Spirit).

I know this statement will get flamed. That's fine. But my belief in the Holy Spirit which indwells within all Christians is my belief, and nothing you can say will change that.

Flame if you must, but that's my opinion.

[Texas2step]

But my belief in the Holy Spirit which indwells within all Christians is my belief

One point of clarification. I should not have used the term Jews exclusively. I should have used the term unbelievers.

Not all Catholics are believers, just as not all Baptists are believers. Sorry for any confusion that post may cause since one of the reviews was written by someone who claims Christianity.

[My Dog Likes Me]

Mel told Diane Sawyer this week that he did a lot of research on the details of death by crucifixion. He asked scholars and doctors about what exactly happens, how the condemmened man reacts, etc. I ask the critics just how can Mel make a whipping scene "unbloody"? We're not talking lethal injection here.

I haven't seen the movie, but if Mel's execution at the end of Braveheart is any indication, it should be realistic and gory.

[MarMema]

Thank you so much for posting these reviews, as they contained information I had not seen before that was very helpful to me.

Kosta, thought you may not have seen this post.

[dennisw]

You're welcome.

[Diverdogz]

Yet another case of "The book was much better than the movie".

[repub32]

What does the church have to do with you not wanting to be a christian/Catholic anymore or believing in your faith...........and I am very coherent, you have the choice to believe in whatever you like it's not up to me to judge you. But if people are going to base their faith on what man teaches and not learning for themselves then it is them that has deceived themselves.

[repub32]

Seems to me Jews are feeling some what guilty.... I dont hear the same people coming out against Holocaust movies that story they want told I dont hear the same people coming out about movies of slavery whats the problem here.... The truth is being told The high Priest's were jews and they handed Jesus to the ROmans who were the only ones that could in those times sentence one to be Crucified and it is the jews not all but most who still dont to this day believe that Jesus was the Son of God. Are you going to tell me you dont believe they would beat this man more then any for the simple fact that he came claiming to be The Messiah (who didnt save himself) which made the High Priest mad in the first place. Just like today fools follow fools or the crowds I should say, so yes I believe jews spit,spat,hit and threw stones at christ but it is not up to me to judge them they will be judged as soon as he returns......

[kcvl]

And some people wonder why many Jews have trouble trusting "Christians"...

I am beginning to "have trouble trusting" Jews. I am also seriously rethinking my support of the National Conference of Christian and Jews . I think I have about had enough of the Christian bashing. I can see there is a real hatred of the Christians (behind our backs)who have supported the Jews and I HAD NO IDEA!

BTW, since when are Christians, "Christians"?