Gun Liability Bill Falls in the Senate

C-Span

[Shooter 2.5]

YEAs ---52
Akaka (D-HI)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Breaux (D-LA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Chafee (R-RI)
Clinton (D-NY)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dayton (D-MN)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Edwards (D-NC)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Fitzgerald (R-IL)
Graham (D-FL)
Gregg (R-NH)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hollings (D-SC)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lugar (R-IN)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
Wyden (D-OR)

What I would like you to understand is according to that list, the Republicans are still the pro-gun party and the dems are the anti-gun, anti-Rights party.

[Travis McGee]

[epow]

: if 'stripping' the AWB off the bill in committee (or the House 'killing' any amended bill that came out of committee) was such a sure thing, Senator Craig - the bill's sponsor - would not have urged the Senate to kill the amended bill...

Craig and his team may have counted noses and knew that a clean bill coming back from conference committee could not be passed in the Senate. But IMO it was foolish to give up as long as there was still a chance for an acceptable bill to be worked out in committee. No matter what the conference committee did, the house and Senate both would have voted on the final version before it went to the White House, and the GOP controlled house was not going to send Bush a bill with an AWB renewal amendment tacked on in this election year. The GOP house majority would not have allowed Bush to be put in the awkward position of either going back on his foolish promise to sign an AWB ban renewal if it came to his desk, or signing it and losing a million votes in Nov. because of it.

If it had proven impossible to get a clean bill out of committee any unacceptable bill would have been defeated in the final house vote. In that case the result would have been the same as it is now, but at least there was some chance that a reasonably clean bill could still have been put together in committee.

My main problem with the way the bill was managed is that our side gave up before the game was over. On something that important we should have fought down to the final buzzer, and even if we lost that wouldn't have been anything worse than what happened. The preemption bill is as dead as Hector for this session, but the AWB renewal isn't. It will be back again and again as an amendment tacked onto every bill that the Dems and their RINO pals can claim is germane. The supposedly GOP Senate proved today that it will reauthorize the ban if it comes up again, and it will be up to the house leadership to keep it away from Bush's desk. Thanks to a few RINO traitors this was NOT a good day for either gun owners, gun makers, or the GOP.

[King Prout]

Oh, I have no doubt of that, as a parsed version of that list clearly shows:

Habitual Felons:
Akaka (D-HI) Bayh (D-IN) Biden (D-DE) Bingaman (D-NM) Boxer (D-CA)
Breaux (D-LA) Byrd (D-WV) Cantwell (D-WA) Carper (D-DE) Clinton (D-NY)
Conrad (D-ND) Corzine (D-NJ) Daschle (D-SD) Dayton (D-MN) Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND) Durbin (D-IL) Edwards (D-NC) Feinstein (D-CA) Graham (D-FL)
Gregg (R-NH) Harkin (D-IA) Hollings (D-SC) Inouye (D-HI) Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA) Kerry (D-MA) Kohl (D-WI) Lautenberg (D-NJ) Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI) Lieberman (D-CT) Lincoln (D-AR) Mikulski (D-MD) Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL) Pryor (D-AR) Wyden (D-OR) Reed (D-RI) Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sarbanes (D-MD) Schumer (D-NY) Stabenow (D-MI)

Turncoats:
Voinovich (R-OH) Warner (R-VA) Smith (R-OR) Snowe (R-ME) Lugar (R-IN)
DeWine (R-OH) Fitzgerald (R-IL) Collins (R-ME) Chafee (R-RI)

These nine so-called Republicans must be destroyed in their next reelection cycle. I just wanted a concise hit-list.

[King Prout]

as a side note:

Voinovich (R-OH)
DeWine (R-OH)

boy, howdy, it must stink to be a conservative in Ohio.
I appreciate Chambliss and Miller more and more every single day... even though Miller is a DINO.

[Shooter 2.5]

There were ten. You missed Gregg (R-NH).

They should lose in the primaries or we lose the Senate. Either that or we start punching a straight Republican ticket and wipe out the anti-gun dem party. Might as well since only six dems voted for us, they don't deserve office.

[Brandon]

There may be some hope for the liability bill (clean version). The House could pass it, and then tack it onto some omnibus package later in the year and let the Dems try to strip it out of the Senate version.

It ain't over till it's over.

[Who is John Galt?]

Craig and his team may have counted noses and knew that a clean bill coming back from conference committee could not be passed in the Senate. But IMO...

No offense, but I trust Larry Craig's opinion more than yours. For all I know, you might be Albert Einstein reincarnated, and the smartest person in the world - but I'll go with Senator Craig on this one, simply because I know he's been supporting the RKBA cause for years.

If it had proven impossible to get a clean bill out of committee any unacceptable bill would have been defeated in the final house vote.

"Would have been defeated?" Care to bet your life on that?

Back in 1994, I spoke on the phone with my (Republican) congressman. He is still in Congress - serving as a committee chairman, as a matter of fact. He had just voted in favor of the 'assault weapons ban.' He knew I was absolutely outraged by his vote in favor of the Clinton/Feinswine AWB - and explained it this way (paraphrasing, since I was not recording the conversation): 'I thought there were more positive aspects to the bill than negative.' How nice. Maybe he liked the 'midnight basketball' provisions...

In short, you seem to be making a lot of assumptions about our supposedly 'republican' Congress. And (FWIW) you seem to be forgetting S. 1806 as well...

No offense intended - I'm sure we agree on 99.99% of the issues, and I'm not looking for more enemies (I've got a 'camera-hound' D@mocrat governor, and one D@mocrat Senator who helped 'poison' S. 1805 ;>). Maybe we should see what happens. Could be you're right, and Mr. Craig is ignoring the obvious. Or maybe Mr. Craig is doing his best, and passing the amended bill would have been somewhat less 'ideal' than your posts seem to imply...

Best regards...

;>)

[Mulder]

It looks like this was a stalemate, at best.

Both sides are spinning this as a 'victory'. The NRA crowd is happy that the AWB wasn't renewed, while the 'domestic enemies of the Constitution' are elated that they can continue to sue the gun makers.

It's really frustrating to see the left get much of their agenda enacted the last 3 years, while us gunowners haven't gotten anything, despite a "Republican" president and congress.

[Travis McGee]

If the bill had passed, leftist judges and DAs would still have gone after gun manufacturers. Since when does a law stop leftist radicals? Check out prop 187 and 22 in Cali.

It's a victory if the AWB sunsets, period.

And I shudder to think of leftist radical DAs and judges and sheeple juries colluding to ban all "armor piercing cop killer" center fire rifle ammo. You can BET they would have used this law to that end.

[epow]

I for one (and I expect to burn in hell for it...) have only a slight concern abotu these gun industry lawsuits...Yes...I do see that costs do mount up...But for the most part I see a lot of them get thrown out...

How many times does this have to be said? The goal of the antis is to bankrupt the industry with legal fees even if they never win a single lawsuit. The antis know that practically all their suits will either lose or be rejected by the courts, but they plan to accomplish their goal in the long run anyway. The object is to kill the industry, not win big bucks in court. Every suit has to be defended no matter how frivolous it may be, and the legal battles and expenses begin even before a judge either allows it to proceed or tosses it out. And the antis, with funding from taxpayer's money and anti-gun billionaires like Soros and McKelvey, have much deeper pockets than the already struggling industry. Many people here seem to think the gun manufacturers are as big and rich as Ford or GE, but in fact all the makers combined barely make a drop in the proverbial bucket compared to corporations like those.

Also, it's almost certain that sooner or later the plaintiffs will win a suit in some liberal state and a vindictive mind-numbed jury will award more money to the plaintiffs than all the industry combined is worth. The gun maker or makers will of course appeal to a higher court, but what are the chances of, oh let's say the NJ Supreme Court, overturning an award against the evil gun makers? My guess is about the same as a snowball's chance in hell.

[King Prout]

yes. exactly. and I'd like to see their memos for planned usage of the "sniper" amendment.

[King Prout]

possible solution: pubbies need to add gunsuit-specific "loser pays" amendments to EVERY SINGLE LEFTIST BILL until the leftist twits allow a clean lawsuit-protection bill to pass.

[epow]

You got it right Rev. The AWB issue isn't going away no matter what happened today.

[epow]

It ain't over till it's over

It's over for this year. The Senate RINO gang showed where they stand on the issue today when they voted to kill it by voting for the AWB amendment. Some of those might have gone for protecting the industry without the added amendments but they would never agree to let the AWB sunset, and some like Chafee and Smith would be in trouble in their liberal states if they did.

[epow]

In short, you seem to be making a lot of assumptions about our supposedly 'republican' Congress.

Many GOP congressmen may not care about the AWB issue, but they do care about Bush's re-election. It doesn't take Einstein to know that if the the AWB renewal makes it to his desk he's in trouble whichever way he goes, and no GOP house member wants that to happen. Even the Senate RINOS want Bush re-elected and were apparently confident the renewal amendment they voted for wouldn't get to him. The "in" party never wants to vote on controversial issues in an election year, and the best way to avoid that is to stop them in committees.

[epow]

And I shudder to think of leftist radical DAs and judges and sheeple juries colluding to ban all "armor piercing cop killer" center fire rifle ammo

Kennedy's amendment would never have gotten out of the conference committeee alive. He's been pushing something like that for decades and it never goes anywhere. Even the antis know not to stir up the 20 million American hunters, the majority of whom haven't been very involved in the gun rights issue so far.

[Squantos]

Whew.........! Anybody else here have their congresscritters on speed dial .........?:o)

Stay Safe Joe and keep up the good efforts !

[Brandon]

No, the liability protection could still come back in another form, attached to another piece of legislation. Having voted for the AWB extension once, the GOP Senators who needed that on their record can tell their constituents, "We tried, but the bill it was part of got voted down."

[epow]

Let's hope you're right, but it may also be that many of the Pubs who supported the preeemption bill believe they have done their duty and can tell the NRA they did all they could and will try again next year. Not many of them are really committed to the gun issues and would gladly rid themselves of it if they could get away with it.