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I can't believ ypou people are happy about this fiasco. This is exactly what the Dems and RINOs wanted. Now the big city mayors and anti-gun billionaires can go on with their scheme to sue the American firearms industry into oblivion for at least another year. If Kerry is elected they won't have to worry about their plan being stopped for the next 5 years at least. They don't reallly care if they lose every case, they plan to bankrupt the industry with legal fees for defending their frivolous lawsuits.

The AWB and "loophole" amendments would have been stripped out in the house-Senate conference committee and a clean bill sent back to the Senate for final approval. But even if that didn't happen the house could simply have killed an amended bill when it voted on the final version, and that was DeLay's intention all along. Now there is no chance for a lawsuit preemption law for at least another year. Neal Knox warned anyone who would listen that this was the antis strategy to kill the preemption bill, and he was right.

You guys are all cheering this vote, and you don't even seem to realize the ANTIS WON. There was never any real danger of the AWB being renewed as long as the pro-gun house could have killed it, and now the entire effort to protect the gun makers was wasted for this year. All of you who called your Senators asking them to torpedo the Senate version of the bill unless it was clean as new snow should be happy now, UNTIL IT DAWNS ON YOU THAT WE LOST because we allowed the antis strategy to succeed. The antis are looking at the long term and you guys are looking at the short term. It is still theorectically possible for the AWB to be be renewed by a new bill. It won't be renewed because it can't pass the house, but it could be renewed if the house wanted it renewed. But it is not possible to get another preemption bill through this year, and that means more millions of dollars that the firearms industry will have to tack onto their prices to cover another year of legal expenses.

You guys think we won, but we actually lost and the antis are right now laughing at our stupidity for falling for it. After most manufacturers out out of business and a new 1911 costs $10,000, if you can find one, maybe some of you will finally see what the antis are up to.

I am only "celebrating" this mockery of a bill getting killed. I disagree that this is a huge travesty and I feel that there was no guarentee that Delay could strip everything out in conference.

Read the threads from earlier today. This AWB issues could have split pro-gun people away from Bush and that is bad in my book. Now it is not an issue, it is not something occupying our time and we can move on to another issue.

Do I see this as a huge vitory? Heck no. The Rats just controlled AGAIN what goes on in the Senate. Reclaiming the majority was not good enough. We need a super majority and certain Senators to grow a spine.

It is not essential that Congress pass the liability bill itself. Basically, this bill will be preempting state common law - there is no federal law which allows suits against gunmakers. This is a state law matter and could be handled on a state level. Gunmakers have fared relatively well in these suits so far so there is no real reason to fear in the short term while we petition our state legislators.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know which, if any, states have passed gunmaker immunity legislation?

I would have agreed with you in the past, but having seen the craven spinelessness of our GOP caucus, I didn't trust them enough to want the bill to have gone to conference.

There was just too much chance that the AWB would have been skillfully sent to Bush's desk by the anti-gunners, in which case he would have felt bound to have signed it.

For some reason, the Dems always seem to have more fire, more commitment, more zeal and more fervor to get their way than the GOP.

The House GOP caucus IS a little stronger, cojones-wise, than the Senate, but not enough for my liking.

I just couldn't take the chance that some slick backroom manuvering on the part of the Dems in Conference would have sent an AWB to the desk of prseident Bush, so I'm glad that Senator Craig urged the Senate to vote NO on his bill.

Ed

I can't believ ypou people are happy about this fiasco...The AWB and "loophole" amendments would have been stripped out in the house-Senate conference committee and a clean bill sent back to the Senate for final approval.

I think Sir_Ed is on the right track: if 'stripping' the AWB off the bill in committee (or the House 'killing' any amended bill that came out of committee) was such a sure thing, Senator Craig - the bill's sponsor - would not have urged the Senate to kill the amended bill...

;>)