Help too late for driver in fatal crash

The Indianapolis Star ^ | March 6, 2004 | Tom Spalding

[eno_]

If she had a stroke that is quite possible. A young person could move half their body with the other half, but not an old, frail woman who may not be operating with her full faculties while having a stroke.

Certainly the highway patrol in no way caused this incident. But neither did they respond to it as quickly as they would to the opportunity to write an expensive speeding ticket.

[Imal]

Well, to be fair, the actuarial tables used by insurance companies to determine the rates they charge are based on assessed statistical risks derived from decades of accident reports.

Based on that measure, older drivers are indeed safer than most other categories of drivers. Interestingly enough, so are women and drivers who are married.

I'm not sure that makes a convincing case for yanking licenses from older drivers, though.

[eno_]

Driving is a privilege.

That is said quite often, but what is the basis for government to assert that motors make travel a priviledge? Not horses - that was always a right, albeit unenumerated. Just motors. When was the motorized-travel-is-a-priviledge amendment passed?

[eno_]

Well, to be fair, the actuarial tables used by insurance companies to determine the rates they charge are based on assessed statistical risks derived from decades of accident reports.

No, state regulations foist the burden of uninsurable drivers onto safe drivers.

[Pahuanui]

I'm sure no matter what method the police attempted would have resulted in a law suit against them. Either too excessive, or not enough action on their part.

As a LEO myself, thanks.

What you said pretty much sums it up.

[Amelia]

Maybe if she was wearing a seat belt (I don't know anyone over 70 who does), she wouldn't have died of head injuries.

Most of the people I know over 70 wear seat belts. Perhaps the ones you know are more ignorant.

The article said "internal injuries", not head injuries, and it didn't say whether or not she was wearing a seat belt.

It doesn't really matter. Dale Earnhardt died of head injuries while wearing a seat belt and lots of other safety gear. A relative of ours died of internal injuries while wearing a seat belt and traveling at a low rate of speed, when her vehicle was hit in the side by a drunk driver traveling at high speed.

Part of the problem, even if someone is wearing a seat belt, is the "slosh factor" - your brain and internal organs tend to keep moving even if your body is held in place by the seat belt. This can cause your brain to be bruised or break loose from the brain stem. It can also cause your aorta or other blood vessels to disattach from your heart.

[cameronsmom]

In order to drive (legally), a driver's exam must be passed. If you cannot pass a driver's test, then you can not drive (legally).

[radiohead]

has had recurring medical problems for some time....

A diabetic is supposed to test her blood sugar before getting behind the wheel. (this is Am. Diabetes Assn. advice, not the law) Of course, most don't. One can have low blood sugar at any time. Usually, you get a feeling that something is wrong and you should have enough time to pull over. However, people who get 'lows' frequently can lose their ability to tell when they are coming on.

Couple this possiblity with any meds the driver may have been taking and she was probably taking a chance every time she drove.

My friend was almost run over by an elderly driver just the other day. Why can't older drivers realize their response rates, etc. are just not the way the were and stop driving?

[GreenHornet]

We were behind some old geezer on the highway yesterday. He was driving so erratic, it was if he were drunk. He wasn't. He was just OLD!

I totally agree with you. But everytime a law is proposed to rein in old drivers or to have them tested more frequently AARP steps in to cry age discrimination.

Every once in a while, there's a story on the evening news about an elderly person who drives through a store front, or into a crowd of people on the sidewalk. Invariably, the person (if they survive) will claim that "the accelerator got stuck". It's funny how that type of mechanical malfunction never seems to occur on cars operated by younger drivers. I don't care what the AARP says. After a certain age, there should be mandatory driver's test each year. If they pass an eye test, and a drivers test, fine. If not, their license should be revoked.

[paul51]

I'd like to see some stats but I suspect the 20 and under crowd is a lot more dangerous...at least they worry me more and not all older drivers have the problems you did.

[BunnySlippers]

Unable to take her foot off the gas pedal
Bull.

Here in Los Angeles ... an old man plowed through 2 entire blocks of the Santa Monica outdoor market before stopping. Yes, two blocks. When they pulled him from the car people had to be restrained from beating him up ... but he was totally confused.

This is typical of the kinds of problems old people have with accelerators. They are certain they have their foot on the brake.

BTW ... the old man at the Santa Monica market killed 10 people on that sunny afternoon last year.

[BunnySlippers]

Hence my story in post #31 about the old man driving high speed through 2 entire blocks of the Santa Monica outdoor market killing 10 last year.

[JudyB1938]

You apparently got so mad at what I said that you didn't read everything. I AM old. I also said that I voluntarily quit driving when I saw that I had become a road hazard - something I swore while I was still young that I would do..

However, I must not have been clear in what I said. I didn't mean SAFE drivers of ANY age should be forced off the road. Just those who refuse to acknowledge they no longer can manipulate a vehicle in a safe and sound manner.

So, am I forgiven?

[ApplegateRanch]

Where I used to live, it was 8 miles of twisting, hilly 55MPH 2-lane road to town, with one straight-away about 1/2 mile long.

Everyone referred to 'the most dangerous problem' on that road as "the case of the 35/70s".

It meant 35 YO's trying to do 70mph, while the 70 YO's were determined to do 35.

[ApplegateRanch]

In an automatic, it is INEXCUSABLE to "confuse" the accelerator & brake.

TWO pedals. TWO feet. What could be simpler.

CHP in the 60s taught that as a standard patrol car driving technique. Used by racers, too. (Or used to be anyway; I haven't kept up.)

Better control; less lag-time than moving a single foot between the pedals; just plain safer.

[ApplegateRanch]

I support competence testing for all drivers whenever a license is issued or renewed... Older drivers aren't the only drivers who pose a threat to public safety.

And I notice that for every story I see of "elderly drivers" causing an accident, I see at least TEN of an UNLICENSED/SUSPENDED-LICENSE driver doing the same; and usually not for the first time.

Again, it is only the law abiding that are bothered by laws.

[Ditter]

I can't see anything the police could have done to stop this woman while she had her foot on the gas pedal. The citizens road block was a good idea. I saw a man in a Lincoln doing the same thing on the Sam Houston Tollway in Houston. I stayed behind him & called the police. He did stop at the tollbooth & then he just sat there, I don't know if the police came or not.

[eno_]

To take a book out of a public lending library, you need a library card. Does that mean the government has the power to confer the priviledge of borroeing books? Or is that just a process to keep it orderly?

Similarly, the government cannot yank a divers license without due process. It is not a priviledge. It is a right until violations of law make one forfeit that right.

Governments, and government officials, that start to think they confer privideges deserve to be destroyed.

[UNGN]

"Beasley, a retired school cook in Decatur Township, died Thursday at Methodist Hospital of head injuries suffered in the one-car crash. Her husband of 56 years, Charles, had her taken off life support Wednesday."

Please don't compare Dale Earnhardt crashing at 190 mph with a 4 lb helmet on his head in a car with a nose section built to withstand 500 miles of 15-20 mph "bumpdrafts" to a 73 year old woman crashing an airbag equipped 95 Lincoln barge at 50 or 60 mph.

also Nothing causes an Aorta to detach from the heart quicker than smacking a steering collumn at 50-60 mph. Definitely not a three point belt.

[Amelia]

If you'll read the linked article, there's also this:

Warren Township firefighters were already there, at 11:34 a.m., using hydraulic equipment to cut the vehicle apart so that they could get Beasley out after stabilizing her. She appeared to suffer internal injuries and was transported by helicopter to Methodist, where she remained for five days until she died.

Perhaps a little unclear.

Please don't compare Dale Earnhardt...to a 73 year old woman crashing

I used Dale Earnhardt because that's an accident people are familiar with, and which has been explained by "the experts" in understandable terms.

The forces weren't exactly the same, but the physics still applies. Your body isn't built for the sudden stop. The 73-year-old's physical condition probably wasn't as strong as Earnhardt's, and yes, the safety equipment varied as did the vehicles, speeds, and probably angles of impact.

also Nothing causes an Aorta to detach from the heart quicker than smacking a steering collumn at 50-60 mph. Definitely not a three point belt.

Well, then. I guess you know more about it than one of the leading trauma surgeons in the United States, who happened to be the one who got the case, since the car accident happened within 2 miles of a medical college.

He said that with these high-speed crashes, the seat belts hold your skeletal system more or less immobile, but your internal organs still "slosh", and that's a leading cause of death.