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1 posted on 03/09/2004 6:13:32 PM PST by freebacon
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To: freebacon
Interesting read.

Good luck.

2 posted on 03/09/2004 6:17:20 PM PST by CWOJackson (What are you complaining about, she called me compassionate...)
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To: freebacon
Not trying to be picky but I think you mean insight not incite.
3 posted on 03/09/2004 6:20:29 PM PST by InterceptPoint
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To: freebacon
Now you've done it . . . don't you understand that Bush's failure to demagogue this issue might cost him the election? [laughter]
4 posted on 03/09/2004 6:24:19 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: freebacon
Very logical and well-reasoned, but one of the most steadfast and unchanging principles I've encountered in life is that reasoning people will become completely irrational when they perceive that their livelihoods are at stake. You can take that to the bank.
6 posted on 03/09/2004 6:53:26 PM PST by Agnes Heep
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To: freebacon
Thus, when I buy a newspaper from a newsdealer for fifty cents, the newsdealer and I exchange two commodities: I give up fifty cents, and the newsdealer gives up the newspaper. Or if I work for a corporation, I exchange my labor services, in a mutually agreed way, for a monetary salary; here the corporation is represented by a manager (an agent) with the authority to hire.

Both parties undertake the exchange because each expects to gain from it. Also, each will repeat the exchange next time (or refuse to) because his expectation has proved correct (or incorrect) in the recent past. Trade, or exchange, is engaged in precisely because both parties benefit; if they did not expect to gain, they would not agree to the exchange.

This is not an example of international trade, not even interstate trade, this is nano-economics. Where is the government subsidizing the production of the newspaper, another government with a printing press? This doesn't matter? Then why do free traders defend their policies with talk of governemnt subsidies and exchange rates?
In addition, outsourcing grows global economies, and global markets, creating more opportunities for domestic industries. Protectionism doesn't protect wealth nor create it; It rations it out.
This more than anything smacks of socialism.
increase the productivity and wages of workers, thereby increasing their standard of living
It would certainly be nice to see this actually happen some day.
Government, in every society, is the only lawful system of coercion. Taxation is a coerced exchange, and the heavier the burden of taxation on production, the more likely it is that economic growth will falter and decline. Other forms of government coercion (e.g., price controls or restrictions that prevent new competitors from entering a market) hamper and cripple market exchanges, while others (prohibitions on deceptive practices, enforcement of contracts) can facilitate voluntary exchanges.
Since this is in bold, I assume it is a major point. If so, then why waste your time trying to eliminate a 4-5% tax when there is the 35% income tax, 100% gas tax, 9% sales tax? Aren't you overestimating the damage tariffs are doing to the economy?

One more point, you don't have the freedom to just bring anything into this country without it being inspected. And, it is certainly not coercive to charge a fee to offset the costs of inpection at the border.


7 posted on 03/09/2004 7:57:21 PM PST by sixmil
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To: freebacon
Outsourcing is bad for a few Americans and good for most of them.

Okay. As far as I am concerned we're off to a good start. No nonsense about "stop whining," juvenile reminders that "no job belongs to you," or the Limbaugh-Hegecock-Sullivan "jobs is jobs" BS -- "Get a job, any job and shut up, Mister Middle Class Professional! Or, should we say ex-middle class. Hee, hee, hee."

Nevertheless, discussing free markets and Red China together makes no sense. Red China does not play by rules, not even the WTO's rules.

Yes, I know the CIO Online thread was mostly about India. But Red China is a major player here also. India is a socialist country that permits some capitalist functions. Both are not all that respectful of intellectual property, though Red China is the worst offender by far.

Market socialism is, in fact, a contradiction in terms.

Yet, some praise Red China as "market socialism." It probably is an accurate description given their implementation of market factors along with Lenin's New Economic Plan (NEP). But the Party owns the capital. Party members (and their "princelings") are the capitalists unlike the 1920s Soviet version of NEP where individual Russians (nepmen) were the capitalists. The Soviet put an end to it as it threatened to overtake communism and executed the nepmen. In Red China NEP is very successful and it benefits the Party members. Smart!

Protectionist policies do little to ensure national interest

Why do you guys always single out protectionism? Not all of our concerns call for restricting "free" trade. True free trade that is.

I have yet to see an answer to my question. To wit, what does sending our technology, manufacturing, and IT-enabled services off shore and importing those goods and services have to do with free trade?

It's not free trade it's offshoring? Okay. Why do some say we have to offshore to be competitive? Yet their argument goes, we benefit by offshoring, too! European and Japanese companies offshore to us!

Yes, they do. Another question, how can they offshore to us and still be competitive when our own corporations cannot? Yes, I know. Not that many jobs have gone offshore yet but it is estimated that the number will keep growing and growing.

Free trade was suppose to be about "comparative advantages." India and China offer labor of all types. That is their advantage, I suppose.

But how could they use that advantage had not our own government assisted them in building their infrastructures to support the industries being shipped to them by our own corporations?

Both our own government and our own corporations supported by our own taxpayers.

Then there's the pesky little problem of national security.

8 posted on 03/09/2004 8:03:21 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (Benedict Arnold was a hero for both sides in the same war, too!)
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To: freebacon
Get rid of OPEC, Chinese slave labor, then you can start talking about free trade. Untill all the markets in the world have the same rules for pollution, saftey, wages, there will not be fair trade, and that is why you need tariffs and restrictions on business and trade. Otherwise there will be a race to the bottom. Get rid of OPEC and NAFTA AND WTO.

Oh, yeah. Check out Lou Dobbs and learn it Right.
13 posted on 03/09/2004 10:17:29 PM PST by TomasUSMC
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To: freebacon
Hearing some outcry on this website against Outsourcing and the Free Market due to simple fears about job security was rather disheartening.

Yes, the simple fears of those who are not in academia.

15 posted on 03/09/2004 10:34:53 PM PST by Penner
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