Utah Woman Charged With Murdering Fetus

Yahoo ^ | 3/12/04 | ALEXANDRIA SAGE

[thoughtomator]

I also know that a large portion of the "pro-life" crowd would just as soon stone me for my sin of having a child out of wedlock, as they would if I had aborted my child.

I hope you don't really believe this... it is not the truth at all.

Me, personally, I'd say it would do your child a ton of good to have a father - really, I think that any child should have both male and female role models. I don't know your situation so I can't even make a judgement as to whether a father figure is present... nor is it anyone else's place to make that judgement.

Anyone who can't see the difference between that and outright murder is utterly blind. Your child is alive, which is an infinitely better condition than being dead.

[Xenalyte]

I advocate nothing. I merely make value judgements for my own entertainment and to further the debate.

[Xenalyte]

All of what you said - bingo.

[Xenalyte]

I would add that the noted info is available higher up in other threads, which I saw before this one.

[Steve Eisenberg]

Can you give a url or link for the newspaper articles you referred to?

Mother Denies Murder Charge

This is from today's Salt Lake Tribune. If already posted, sorry, I have not read this whole thread carefully.

Notice what a liar she is, calling the adoption agency and implying she had not yet given birth while asking to be bailed out.

[FITZ]

I still find it hard to believe that many women die --- but when you consider why they do elective c-sections in the first place --- illness of the mother, high blood pressure, extreme obesity, HIV and herpes, it would seem that the numbers are somewhat skewed --- and that 2.8 deaths per 10,000 should be counted as vaginal delivery deaths --- even if a c-section was attempted after it was too late. Many of the c-section deaths would also have been deaths if vaginal delivery was tried --- depending on the reason in the first place. Also you have to look at outcomes for the babies. Cerebral palsy, death and other birth related problems.

[TigersEye]

She sounds like she's probably mentally retarded.

Apparently her lawyer is now claiming just that. Which begs the question; if she was obviously too mentally impaired to make such a decision and her refusal was a clearcut indication that she was incompetent and choosing a reckless and negligent course of action why did the hospital/doctor/nurses wait to take action on that and participate in her negligence by assisting her in it?

[FITZ]

I still find it hard to believe that many women die --- but when you consider why they do elective c-sections in the first place --- illness of the mother, high blood pressure, extreme obesity, HIV and herpes, it would seem that the numbers are somewhat skewed --- and that 2.8 deaths per 10,000 should be counted as vaginal delivery deaths --- even if a c-section was attempted after it was too late. Many of the c-section deaths would also have been deaths if vaginal delivery was tried --- depending on the reason in the first place. Also you have to look at outcomes for the babies. Cerebral palsy, death and other birth related problems.

[Steve Eisenberg]

If she had the verticle cut before, she was in big risk herself from a uterine rupture if she chose vaginal delivery. She sounds like she's probably mentally retarded.

She had two prior bikini cuts. From what I read, her main problem is that she is obnoxious and alienates people. Doc doesn't guarantee her perfection, and she's outta there. She says she has bipolar disorder, but all her attorney appears to have confirmed is a diagnosis of oppostional defiant disorder.

[thoughtomator]

Denying the humanity of human beings in their first nine months of existence isn't a good start on being pro-life... didn't they teach you how human beings are made in biology class? Sperm + egg = zygote and all that? Zygote becomes embryo, embryo becomes fetus, fetus becomes baby. It's an intimately related chain of events... a baby doesn't suddenly instantiate when born; zygotes don't decide to become kidneys or bones.

The plain fact of the matter is that a new human being is created when a sperm fertilizes an egg. It is true that by nature, many don't make it past that stage. But forcibly terminating one that will make it is extinguishing a unique human life that can never be precisely reproduced. The presence of a unique and complete set of human DNA is the proof.

[Xenalyte]

I think our disagreement, such as it is (and that's not very much), is that when I hear "relate to" I think touchy-feely psych crap, and you seem to mean "communicate," given your own example.

I agree that the doctor MUST be able to communicate with his patients. Being squishy and all the other stuff, which I typically associate with "relating to" someone, I don't think is needed - nice, but unnecessary.

So we're both right. :)

Question: at the ER, did you ask for a better English speaker than the Asian doctor?

[TigersEye]

I've got your entertainment hangin'.

[Xenalyte]

"I gave my daughter to people who loved her just as much as I did and wanted her just as much as I wanted to keep her," she said. She added that she placed the little girl for adoption because she lacked the resources to support her.

For the love of God, WHY GET PREGNANT then?

[Xenalyte]

Hang away, but watch out for the zipper. Them bastids can hurt, I'm told.

[Xenalyte]

I just re-read your post, and for some reason it cracked me up. I can hear it in so many voices . . . Clint Eastwood, "Grease"-era John Travolta, Schwarzenegger, Joe Pesci. If I had a Post of the Day Award, I'd give it to you.

[Steve Eisenberg]

For the love of God, WHY GET PREGNANT then?

Hopefully one day she will love God. Until then, she'll be cursing the day she ever set foot in the God-fearing state of Utah.

[Tumbleweed_Connection]

I agree, but as I posted earlier, in this case I would have to see more information. As well, the OB is certainly going to cover his ass in this day of malpractice let alone satisfying his moral standards. Certainly you've witnessed the gradual destruction of the number of physicians, if one isn't checking all the bases today it's simply a ticket into the restaurant business.

The aspect about this which interested me was labeling the incident as murder, which of course doesn't coincide with abortion rights or any of legal definitions which support it. If convicted of anything, it's curious to consider the ramifications this case will have.

[TigersEye]

... but all her attorney appears to have confirmed is a diagnosis of oppostional defiant disorder.

LOL Every time I hear that the goverment has mandated what a person should have done or should have known I get a big case of that.

Have a great day, everybody. I'm off to CO to see my momma, who did more than right by me, for the first time in two years.

Don't take it all too seriously. This is a political forum not a Roman Quorum. ; )