The Kurdish People: A Background and History

Very cool....

Thank you for posting this....

21 posted on 04/08/2004 12:05:50 AM PDT by bellas_sister ("Mr. Kennedy, did you know they found a dead girl in your car?")

This is a great read.....

22 posted on 04/08/2004 12:15:24 AM PDT by bellas_sister ("Mr. Kennedy, did you know they found a dead girl in your car?")

To: xzins; Happy2BMe; devolve; yall

Thanks. Interesting.
I read part of it. Need to come back and read more later.
Bump to a couple others ...

23 posted on 04/08/2004 2:20:54 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Become a monthly donor on FR. No amount is too small and monthly giving is the way to go !)

"We have defended our lands for almost 100 years. The mountains are our friends and the caves our barracks. We will never give up our guns." CDR Kamal Musa. Kurdish Peshmerga.

24 posted on 04/08/2004 4:56:09 AM PDT by donozark ((I fought in the Kimchi Valley...but I don't like to talk about it))

Matthew 2 1 And Jesus having been born in Beth-Lehem of Judea, in the days of Herod the king, lo, mages from the east came to Jerusalem, 2 saying, `Where is he who was born king of the Jews? for we saw his star in the east, and we came to bow to him.'

The above is Young's Literal Translation. His choice was to place the word order "mages from the east." I've not looked at it, but there's probably some support for saying "from the east mages came." That would support your position.

I suspect it might be a matter of fair choice.

25 posted on 04/08/2004 5:17:05 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Proud of It!)

To: ChicagoHebrew

Excellent article, CH.

Biblically, could we go back to Noah and Abram's forebears in Mesopotamia to account for these genetic links or are they more recent? Or is the distance of the genetic link not something that necessarily translates to a predictable timeline?

26 posted on 04/08/2004 6:03:17 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Proud of It!)

How can one see a star in the east and follow it to the east?

27 posted on 04/08/2004 7:04:19 AM PDT by snerkel ("He's not coming back to preach!")

I always thought that the Kurds were a Turkic people - in particular the language is related to Turkish. If this is a misapprehension I am happy to be corrected.

28 posted on 04/08/2004 7:31:48 AM PDT by Killing Time

To: Killing Time

I don't know. I always thought they were more closely related to the Iranians.

29 posted on 04/08/2004 7:51:41 AM PDT by snerkel ("He's not coming back to preach!")

From your position in the east where you see the star, you can follow the star.

Otherwise, you have them being located someplace in the west and then traveling east. Could they have been to the west in Rome, Alexandria, Spain....and then traveled to the east?

There isn't any evidence of that. In fact, the evidence is somewhat (although not certain) contrary in that it says they were "wise men from the east." Therefore, imo, their words indicate the meaning, "we saw his star (from our location) in the east."

Although, this interpretation isn't hard and fast. Perhaps they could have been easterners who were visiting in some land to the west of Israel so they could have traveled to the east in the direction of that star.

I like the other explanation better.

30 posted on 04/08/2004 7:55:17 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Proud of It!)

It is illogical to think one can be in the east, see a star in the east, follow the star towards the east and end up west (in Bethlehem).

It would be logical, IMO, to look to Scripture. There are some who feel the birth of Jesus was not only prophesied, but also events surrounding His birth.

Isaiah 60:1-8

1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

4 Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.

5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

6 The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD.

7 All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory.

8 Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows?

Psalms 72:2-17

2 He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment.

3 The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness.

4 He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.

5 They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations.

6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth.

7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.

8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.

9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.

10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.

11 Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.

12 For he shall deliver the needy when he crieth; the poor also, and him that hath no helper.

13 He shall spare the poor and needy, and shall save the souls of the needy.

14 He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight.

15 And he shall live, and to him shall be given of the gold of Sheba: prayer also shall be made for him continually; and daily shall he be praised.

16 There shall be an handful of corn in the earth upon the top of the mountains; the fruit thereof shall shake like Lebanon: and they of the city shall flourish like grass of the earth.

17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.

Also, there are a couple of early references (Justin, in A.D. 160 and Clement of Rome A.D. 96) which state the Magi traveled from Arabia.

31 posted on 04/08/2004 9:37:54 AM PDT by snerkel ("He's not coming back to preach!")

Maybe it's just my brain ain't working right, but isn't Arabia to the east of Israel.... Wouldn't that be a journey from the east in a westerly direction?

So, then, if I see a star in the east in Arabia, wouldn't I be traveling in the general direction of India to get to it?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you.

Are you saying that they did not see a star, but perhaps saw a prophecy? (I might buy into that a bit.)

32 posted on 04/08/2004 9:49:00 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Proud of It!)

Arabia is south and east of Israel, depending on the area from which a person would travel.

I did not imply they did not see a star, I do not doubt they saw a star. In offering the verses from the OT, I am trying to show my position that they were not necessarily traveling from an eastern country, but that their origins (land of their birth) may have been an eastern country.

33 posted on 04/08/2004 9:56:22 AM PDT by snerkel ("He's not coming back to preach!")

By and large it's southeast....I'll agree with that. I'm confused. Maybe we're saying the same thing.

I think I understand that you're saying either (1) that they were from one eastern country (wise men from the east), but that they were in the east in a different country (Arabia) and saw the star OR (2) That they were from the east and while in the east saw that star????

I'm not trying to be difficult. (Just imagine what I could do if I tried.)

34 posted on 04/08/2004 10:06:40 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Proud of It!)

A very interesting post, thanks Xzins.

35 posted on 04/08/2004 3:59:27 PM PDT by SanAntoneBlue

No one really knows why the Kurds are so close genetically to the Jews. Although Abraham came from what is today Kurdistan, Abraham was a semetic Aramean. The Kurds aren't Semeitc at all.

Similarly, although the Kurds live in the exact area where the Bible says the "Lost Tribes" were exiled, they have no tradition of being from Israel-- and no traditions resembling Judaism (unlike, for example, the Parthans of Afganistan).

36 posted on 04/08/2004 7:36:28 PM PDT by ChicagoHebrew

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37 posted on 06/04/2009 10:52:46 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)

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