Abrams Tank Attacked And Destroyed By Insurgents In Iraq

news wires | 11/04/2004 | Outspot

[null and void]

Well I will, top, and rear armor is weaker than the front and side armor.

and it's under an overpass...

[Colonel Jim]

It is not invincible!

[ASA Vet]

unless or until we suffer an NBC attack on our shores

I disagree with your assumption.
It will take several major hits in our homeland before we decide on War.

[Publius6961]

Well, if you're soory, I suppose we can let you go get some coffee.
Proofreading is our friend...

[A.A. Cunningham]

Perhaps you can describe, in detail, the types of successful MOUT operations you have either commanded or been an active participant in.

[Publius6961]

I'd like you to point to a battle in the past where an armed force attacking a city of a similar size took less casualties than our Marines have taken in recapturing Fallujah?

An excellent point. History is being re-written as we speak. Historically, in a typical siege, the attackers can count on failing if their numerical superiority was less than 5 to one, and typically more like 10-20 to 1.

As far as I'm concerned I would be happy with 10,000 to 0 no matter what the name of the enemy is. I keep hoping. Specially when dealing with savages, who not only deliberately target non-participating civilians, but arrange to put their own women, children and helpless in harm's way for propaganda purposes. They deserve no chance to live. Zero, zip, nichts, rien, nichigo, nada.

[fightu4it]

As the liberal media in this country increases it's attack on our President there will be a corresponding increase in the attacks on our troops in Iraq.

The time to make those responsible aware of the consequences of their actions is now, before any more troops are attacked.

[templar]

Can anyone tell me how the Iraqi insurgents are able to penetrate our invincible Abrams tank?

Nothing is invincible. If the weapons (supplied by our good friends China or Russia, maybe) aren't available, ingenuity will (eventually) suffice. There is an old saying that where there is a will there is a way.

[templar]

But Bush will lose my support if we're not in this fight to win, if the U.S. will not take the bold steps necessary to win the war.

Bush kinda got us in a box when he used Saddam's violence against the Iraqi people to establish power and control as a (retroactive) justification for the invasion after the initial reasons turned to be untrue (WMD's and such). If we do the same (extreme violence against the Iraqi's opposing us), we will end up being exactly what we have accused Saddam of being, a ruthless dictator.

The Bible warns that when we judge we set ourselves up for the same standard of judgment to be brought on ourselves.

[nuconvert]

They could still have stashes of weapons left from France and Russia.

[vbmoneyspender]

Just as a comparison look at what happended during the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, where the Jewish resistence was compressed in a much smaller area and was much less well armed than the Fallujah thugs are and the Nazis were much more ruthless than the Marines have been in Fallujah. There, the Nazis admitted losing 15 people and suffering over 70 casualties in the fight to retake the Ghetto. This number however was believed to have substantially undercounted Nazis deaths casualties in order to not cause embarrassment to Himmler, whose people had been in charge of retaking the Ghetto. At the end of the uprising, which lasted over a month, the SS finally had to resort to burning down the Ghetto - but even that didn't kill off all of the defenders, so the Nazis ended up killing the last holdouts by gassing them

See Link

[rbmillerjr]

"Bush kinda got us in a box when he used Saddam's violence against the Iraqi people to establish power and control as a (retroactive) justification for the invasion"

False statement, in several regards:

Saddam put his country and people in a box when he willfully flouted the UN Resolutions. The US is not establishing power and control in any way shape or form. We are establishing an Iraqi government and aiding in that transition. In June they take political control of their country, the Iraqis that is.

[Euro-American Scum]

Well four places I can think of are Russia, China, India, the EU and Israel.

Couldn't be China. No way they have the technical expertise to reverse engineer the weapons systems whose manufacturing we've offshored to them. It's just grunt work, after all.

/sarcasm

[wildbill]

"lumbering M1-A1 Abrams tank's performance"????

Whatever it is, it is not lumbering. The Adams is rated the fastest tank in the world and its weapons systems can fire while the tank is going at speed.

If there is anything in the world that is "invincible" I'd like to hear about it.

[ExSoldier]

I wonder if the "Halon Shots" worked? I'm thinking that maybe they were riding unbuttoned and the exposed crew were sniped and somebody dropped a satchel or other form of charge down inside. Worked in WWII and for that matter, the Sovs lost 500 tanks that way trying to take Czechloslavakia in 1968.

[philetus]

Don't forget the U.S.

[King Prout]

yes, but your subconscious was not in error, as W.U. = Weasel Union

[ExSoldier]

Happy Easter. That is some impressive "about page!" LOL.

I'm a former Armor officer and I qualified on the M1. Yes, any tracked vehicle can be overcome and it's pretty easy to do, especially if the vehicle is sort of wandering about without an infantry escort which is standard combined arms doctrine. If the grunts were nearby this should not have happened at all. No tank should be wandering about on it's own without benefit of a "wing man" tank or infantry escort (mounted or not). No tank should be wandering about without being on a specific mission, even if that's a patrol. Tanks not on missions should be in a "hull down defilade" laager with full perimeter security.

[Poodlebrain]

Life and combat are not without risks. What do you consider to be beyond main gun range? In urban terrain there is seldom a several kilometer, unobstructed line of sight that would exceed a tank's main gun range.

You validate my point by making reference to the Israeli's. They do not bring Merkavas on their raids into West Bank and Gaza cities for the light mortar fire. The Merkava's light mortar is an augmentation to the tank's main gun not a substitute.

[dila813]

If you read the press reports before the war, there were shipments of thousands of shoulder fired missiles smuggled into Iraq from Syria before the war.

These Missiles were made in Russia with love.