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To: OutSpot
It's combat. We will take losses. Equipment is no better nor smarter than it's operators, including the Field Commander (re: how he employs it).

Losses and deaths, though regretable and tragic, are acceptable. Losing the mission is not.

Bush and the JCS had better regroup and rethink the order of battle. We need to recognize that the enemy is Islam, and potentially, all Muslims. The U.S. had better understand the role of Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and other countries where support flows from (either directly or indirectly sponsored by their governments), and take direct action to end support to the insurgents. If the battlefield needs to be expanded to win the war, it'd better be done now. If we need to be more ruthless, and engage in less "nation building" to guarantee victory and minimize the returning bodybags, then we need to change our tactics. If we need to double the number of troops in the field, and expand the standing military head counts, then Bush had better NOT be late doing so.

I can't think of anything that would cause me to support a lying, dishonorable, traitor like Kerry. But Bush will lose my support if we're not in this fight to win, if the U.S. will not take the bold steps necessary to win the war.

If we're not in this to win, and win with MINIMUM necessary losses, then better to bail out and let the Kerry Democrats have the country. As a military man, I'm losing my confidence in the Bush team. Election year politics cannot dictate military strategy.

SFS

10 posted on 04/11/2004 2:41:31 AM PDT by Steel and Fire and Stone (SFS)
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To: Steel and Fire and Stone; MJY1288; xzins; Calpernia; TEXOKIE; Alamo-Girl; windchime; Grampa Dave; ..
 From CPA briefing, 4/09, latest posted transcript -- 
 
GEN. KIMMITT: ... I would say it's a gross mischaracterization to suggest that the entire country is at war, that the entire country is now under the grips of combat.  I think we can take a look at the map and see that currently there are some small, localized contact, such as here in al Kut, down here in An Nasiriyah, a little bit in Baghdad.   But to suggest that somehow, that the 27 million people of the country of Iraq are currently in the midst of a war, that just isn't the case.

            Is it spreading?  I would ask those who want to attack the coalition or attack Iraqi government facilities or attack Iraqi police stations in any number to take a very close look at how quickly we were able to reposition a coalition force of over 1,000 soldiers, approximately two to three dozen combat vehicles and extensive air power in a very, very short period of time.  That ought to be a very clear lesson that if, in fact, somebody has the idea -- perhaps in Arupa (ph) or over here at Samawa or up here at Tikrit -- that they want to start another set of violence, another set of engagements, that the coalition, with its 130,000-plus members, and the Iraqi security forces, with their 200,000-plus police, ICDC and Iraqi armed forces, has the flexibility, the capability to move anywhere in this country and put down that violence.  So watch very carefully

Q     (Through interpreter.)  This is to General Kimmitt.  You spoke about the 120,000 American or coalition forces here.  Can you   tell us exactly how many of the coalition forces are engaged in the areas of Fallujah and al-Mahdi militias?  And there are reports, journalistic reports they say about the destruction of convoys and movements.  You have not told us about the losses on the coalition side.

GEN. KIMMITT:  With regards to how many of our forces are involved in Fallujah and some of these other operations, a very, very small percentage; probably -- oh, I'd estimate somewhere on the order of a brigade-and-a-half worth of forces are directly involved in combat operations at this time in terms of ground maneuver forces. And that's a very small percentage of what's available to be drawn upon here in Iraq should we need to move forces from one sector to another.  Now I may be a little bit off on that estimation.  It may be a little more, perhaps two-and-a-half brigades, but nonetheless whether it's one and a half or two and a half, that is a very, very small percentage of the available combat force here in the country.

.........GEN. KIMMITT:  You're right, but the numbers are very, very small.  We continue to lose small numbers of Humvees on a daily basis, partially damaged by IEDs and such, and I think we had today some fuel trailers that were blown up.  But as a percentage of the total force -- I'm not certain that we have lost any tanks.  I'm not certain that we have lost any Bradley Fighting Vehicles.  I have no report that we've lost any light armored reconnaissance vehicles as part of any of these operations.  I suspect that you may have been reading accounts from some of the more extremist websites, more extremist publications that would suggest somehow that there have been large losses, but   those just don't square with the facts.  I'll see what I can find out in terms of the actual numbers and get them to you tomorrow.

(Briefing slides not yet posted.)

32 posted on 04/11/2004 7:07:07 AM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl ("Enemies of freedom are making a desperate stand - and they will be defeated."- Conde Rice, ally.)
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To: Steel and Fire and Stone
"Election year politics cannot dictate military strategy."

True, but fighting in a densley populated area means either being very careful - slow and as precise as possible - or killing off a lot of bystanders who you'd rather have pacified than dead and bewailed by their neighbors.

These people are not going to love us but unless you advocate pulling out and carpet bombing the cities there aren't a lot of options.

House to house is the most dangerous combat you can undertake and any piece of equipment can be taken down. [This is not the first M1 shown going up - I'd be a lot more interested in how many of the crew got out OK]

41 posted on 04/11/2004 7:31:18 AM PDT by norton
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To: Steel and Fire and Stone
We need to recognize that the enemy is Islam

Not in our lifetime. Unless some PDB or other secret FINDING describes it that way (it will then become PUBLIC of course) there is NO WAY this will ever be stated publically and as you can tell from our tactics in Fallujah and elsewhere, POLITICS, once again and as is USUAL, dictate the happenings on the battlefield and HENCE, the results.

Is there any doubt that we could pacify any city, or country in a matter of hours IF our Military commanders were told, "PACIFY NOW" using extreme measures as you GENERAL see fit. The ONLY requirement is to LOSE as few of OUR men doing it and KILL as many as the ENEMY as possible. Civilian casualties are not a concern and do this as quickly as possible.

Well it is only a dream it will never happen that way again. WWII is the past and we are so far ahead of everyone, Militarily, that COMPASSION has entered our strategic and tactical military thought process. We never do a bombing run UNLESS and UNTIL all nearby possible civilian casualties are eliminated or minimized to the extent that puts our troops in MORE dangerous situations than would otherwise be necessary.

It stinks, but it is a fact and as frustrating as it is, it will NOT change, unless or until we suffer an NBC attack on our shores.

42 posted on 04/11/2004 7:32:27 AM PDT by PISANO (Our troops...... will NOT tire...will NOT falter.....and WILL NOT FAIL!!!)
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To: Steel and Fire and Stone
But Bush will lose my support if we're not in this fight to win, if the U.S. will not take the bold steps necessary to win the war.

Bush kinda got us in a box when he used Saddam's violence against the Iraqi people to establish power and control as a (retroactive) justification for the invasion after the initial reasons turned to be untrue (WMD's and such). If we do the same (extreme violence against the Iraqi's opposing us), we will end up being exactly what we have accused Saddam of being, a ruthless dictator.

The Bible warns that when we judge we set ourselves up for the same standard of judgment to be brought on ourselves.

69 posted on 04/11/2004 8:58:46 AM PDT by templar
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To: Steel and Fire and Stone
You've undoubtedly thought about the idea that if he IS playing election year politics, then the day after he won the election the hammer would come down, right? I mean, that's kind of lousy but its better than Kerry coming out and saying our guys are going to be wearing blue helmets.
104 posted on 04/14/2004 10:00:21 AM PDT by johnb838 ("I really don't care; they're all gonna die," Lance Cpl. Ryan Christensen)
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