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Defeatist nonsense.

If you dont want a Vietnam repeat, dont engage in such abject defeatism.

"You let Americans get butchered, let our Marines die in vain, pull out in the face of a weak cowardly evil enemy"

We are doing NONE OF THE ABOVE. There is no PULLOUT in the face of the enemy!!!

And btw we 'won' Vietnam in the years 1969-1973. Using a succesful counterinsurgency campaign and bombing of the north, by 1973, we had acheived a peace treaty that preserved south vietnam. our war aims were acheived. Those goals were destroyed in 1974-1975 because weak anti-war cowards refused to support South Vietnam at all post 1973 treaty, and after Nixon resigned, the North realized they could attack the south. 1975 takeover of the south was like a whole new war in vietnam, regular army of the north just rolled into south vietnam and directly defeated the south. USA didnt lift a finger when Communist Hanoi breached the treaty of 1973 that we both signed.

Defeatist nonsense.

It is anything except defeatist nonsense. No one wants to lose, but the fact remains that America has basically surrendered now in Fallujah. We have lost. If you want to dispute the facts as they are presented to you and somehow explain to all of us here how this is a victory then I am sure we all want to hear.

Fallujah was to be the turning point. This was where the enemy took their stand against the United States and where the United States has now stood down.

This is a victory for our enemies. Being a victory this will only serve to embolden our enemies worldwide and encourage them to stand up to the United States. You can rest assured that "Remember Falluja!!!" will be battle cry in years to come when we confront our enemies on other battlefields.

Muslim extremists worldwide will remember this event with pride and honor. Many throughout the Muslim world will now regard these holy warriors of Allah as heroes and many of the so-called moderate Muslims will question whether or not 'divine intervention' somehow played a role in the battle of Fallujah. David could not have defeated Goliath without divine intervention. In Islam this is known as the story of Dawud and Jalut.

The terrorists know our "Achille's heel", they know now how to ultimately defeat us at our own game. We become impotent and frozen with fear at the prospect of harming "innocent civilians". Our actions are dictated to us not by our own resolve and willingness to win but by "the world media", the "arab street" and by public opinion.

It is a sad day. If we are not prepared and do not have the resolve to WIN this war and do what is needed then we need to bring our boys home and hide under our beds and await the storm of Islam because it is coming.

Don't ever forget that the most important thing you ever need to know about Islam is that the Arabic word "Islam" does not mean peace. It means submission.