[elfman2]

No statements by General Abizaid, Kimmitt or Conway contradict this. Their statements need to be read carefully and are either very vague or irrelevant to “who” decided to stop the attack.

The military is of course always subservient to political objectives, but halting the attack on Fallujah like this is indicative of the crippling restrictions behind tragedies in Vietnam, Lebanon and Somalia.

Bush is of course principled, but one of his principles is to compromise to whatever degree necessary to claim some positive results when the outcome is not certain.

I think Americans did not struggle and suffer and die in Iraq for the president to compromise.

Some claim that a greater objective is served by this, and others call that a convenient explanation for our political weakness in kicking the knees out from under our Marines in full charge.

Some claim that we can restart the Fallujahn offensive if the Fallujahn Brigade fails. Others say it’s much more difficult now, unlikely, and the damage has been done.

Either way, we now have un-contradicted information on who made the decision to halt the attack on Fallujah.

[nutmeg]

ping!

Please FReepmail me if you want on or off my infrequent ‘miscellaneous’ ping list.

[A Jovial Cad]

I just got what I suspect will be the last shrill, whining "reply" to this thread from the "everythings-going-great-in-Fallujah" crowd (check out Post #284), and it was, as usual, the last shriek in what has turned out to be a full-tilt retreat from the debate by those folks. They've moved on to blather and scream in fresher threads, as is their wont when challenged with facts.
Thus the thread ends. What have we learned? Well, elfman2, my friend, we have once again seen how nasty, vicious, and outright duplicitous those whom oppose our take on the situation can be. They consistently scream that we're "defeatists" (and much worse) while over and over we affirm that our criticism is based upon a desire for resolute victory. They twist and distort our words, while dispensing outright lies about our supposed motives. And then they slink off, whining, as was demonstrated here.
Until the next time we have the opportunity to take them on (which I suspect will be sooner rather than later), thanks and take it easy.
Sincerely, AJC

[gandalftb]

The tactical situation in Fallujah has changed. The Marine cordon is reduced to the Al-Jawlan area roughly 2km. square. Rebels went or stayed there as the streets and alleys are too narrow for even Humvees, the Marines use John Deere Gators for resupply and evac.

Al-Jawlan civilians reduced from 40k to about 2k. Non-combatants are mainly local men protecting family homes and housing rebel wounded. Rebel forces attrited from about 3,500 3 weeks ago to about 300 foreigners and 400 local toughs. Most are wounded, all are starving.

Water and power cut off. Generators are out of fuel so most enemy sat. phone batteries are dead, ending command and control except by runner. Look down thermal shows groups of 5-20 moving often, many are carried, few heavy weapons being moved, probably depleted. Ammo dumps were destroyed by Spectre gunships.

A very grim place, heavy fetid odor from many rotting dead. Teams of Marine Scout/Snipers, 36th Battalion ICDC Kurds, and Army SF-led ICTF snipers hunting 24/7 while 2 Marine Battalions hold the cordon. Many have over 20 KIA. The Kurds are very good at closing with their targets, they want to kill them all, very respected by the Marines.

Local imams are now broadcasting calls for the rebels to surrender. Debate about whether or not to clean up the battlefield before the media sees it. I say let the world and all the jihadist wannabe trash see it....Carry on.

[gandalftb]

You're right, sort of. This was Conways decision. But he had the "benefit" of the Iraqi Governing Council filtered through CentCom/Abizaid/Sanchez. There was a request to Conway to do a temp. ceasefire and to just look at other options such as joint patrols, more ICDC troops, beefed up local police/militias, etc. So he did take a pause, the Marines needed rest and resupply, and they knew that the needed Abrams and a MAW were on the way. Also, the snipers were racking up lots of KIAs, let 'em go.

So, Conway rejects all the possible options over the next few days when Gens. Saleh and Lteif show up with their "brigade" and an offer to bribe the ICDC deserters into redeserting to the "brigade". Gen. Conway has little patience for haggling so he asks Gen. Mattis to cut the deal which is what happened. By that time the initiative had been lost, CentCom/DC was really fussing and you see the result. We really did KIA most of the enemy but the cost/benefit wasn't there to do more, on top of the political snorting and braying.

One additional benefit: the aggressiveness in Falluja gave CentCom the assurance that they could go after al-Sadr and his mob without causing an Iraqi-wide uprising.

We suffered additional casualties due more to the lack of armor on the cordon which allowed infiltration of weapons to the rebels and their attack on 04/26.

[TomasUSMC]

Outstanding stuff elfman2

[CWOJackson]

"...interviewed Jim Michaels (USA Today Reporter) just back from Fallujah."

Confirmed? By a USA Today Reporter?