Victor Davis Hanson: Let Europe be Europe, You won’t be our friends? Fine, protect yourselves...

NRO ^ | June 18, 2004 | Victor Davis Hanson

[Carry_Okie]

I think that he is merely suggesting that we recognize that European & US interests are diverging and we need to accept that new reality.

Those interests have always been divergent. We should be concentrating upon dealing with "Europe" on a country by country basis and forget the EU superstate (and the UN with it). The principle of accountability Hansen is citing needs to be driven downward.

In that regard the French present a unique problem. It would seem that they gain their status only by "virtue" of their craven willingness to engage in abject perfidy. By disengaging them from Europe at large, we might just focus the world upon the depth of their depravity and thus induce some substantive change for the better.

[Atlantic Friend]

Imagine what would have happened if Paris or Berlin had mobilized to preempt Milosevic while the United States refused — claiming with Russia in the Security Council that such unilateral, non-U.N. approved action was brinkmanship of the worst sort — and then strong-armed other NATO countries to oppose European efforts.

Er, sorry to interrupt, but this ALREADY happened in 1956 when France, Israel and the United Kingdom intervened militarily in Egypt where terrorist-backing President Nasser seized the international Suez Canal.

Eisenhower DID strong-arm Paris and London even as allied troops had already stormed Port-Saïd, and he also said the United States would not neither help nor defend France nor Great Britain as the Soviets threatened to attack both countries...

[aculeus]

Bump!

[Tolik]

I like your approach to deal with all the countries individually. Simple and direct and avoids generalizations that are often wrong. Plus, no friendly act on their part should be left forgotten or unrewarded.

[Carry_Okie]

Correct, it's like accountability among individuals: The more nebulous the entity, the more injustices are necessarily visited upon the innocents therein.

Note how Islam hates "depraved American culture" for which liberals are nearly totally responsible. Interesting that conservatives end up fighting to keep them safe while the beneficiaries work overtime to undermine those very efforts. It's a structural consequence of a heterogenous society. How to optimize size versus political accountability constitutes the details wherein the devil resides.

[Michael81Dus]

Pardon, but I´ve to get some things STRAIGHT!
In the first place, the permission to have sexual intercourse within military bases is for heterosexual couples. Although homosexuality is not illegal in the armed forces, it means to get placed to a task where you have not much contact to others. There will be no gay Sergeant training recruits! I don´t know any gay soldiers, but I´m sure there are a few. Those are as silent as the gays in the US military are, and this is better for them and for us.

[dennisw]

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/04/22/wger22.xml

[Michael81Dus]

What´s your point?

[Let's Roll]

"Thanks for beating quidnunc to it.
:O)"

Amen.

[Fraulein]

The ethicists of Europe don't want to see success in Iraq, since it might be interpreted as a moral refutation of their own opposition to Saddam's removal...Liberating Iraq, shutting down Baathist terror, and establishing consensual rule, after all, was a dangerous — and mostly Anglo-American — idea, antithetical to all the Europeans have become.

bump

[Publius6961]

BUMP!

[perfect stranger]

VDH

[lainde]

bttt

[risk]

The continent is now the repository of Western heritage — a beautiful museum or amusement park, if you will, of caretakers and custodians.

I like this perspective, but I'm not so sure that the neutrality is so benign. As with the Cold War, it's a dangerous moment to be "neutral." However, VDH gets one thing wrong: German troops are in Afghanistan.

As with the crisis in the Sudan, I think we should be asking Europeans to take more responsibility for these areas while we work on the WMD proliferation problem and the spread of islamism.

If France and Germany were busier repaying their Marshall Plan aid by passing it on to other needy areas now, and helping to stabilize them, perhaps the spectre of 4GW (4th generation warfare) wouldn't be so menacing in areas like Darfur.

Plus, if they were more busy actually making a difference in the world, they might understand what we're putting on the line better.

Economic Assistance, April 3, 1948 to June 30, 1952
(in millions of dollars)

[France and Germany only shown.]

COUNTRY	Total	Grants	Loans
Total for all countries	$13,325.8	$11,820.7	$1,505.1
France	2,713.6	2,488.0	225.6
Germany, Federal Republic of	1,390.6	1,173.7	216.9b
Regional	407.0d	407.0d	--

[Atlantic Friend]

As a matter of fact both Germany and France have troops in Afghanistan, as is clearly stated on the Centcom website. Mr Hanson has not made his homework all that well, as it appears...

[risk]

As a matter of fact both Germany and France have troops in Afghanistan, as is clearly stated on the Centcom website. Mr Hanson has not made his homework all that well, as it appears...

That's surprising A.F., and I apologize (pinging my FR favorites). VDH always comes across as knowing so much history and so forth. Thanks for making it clear. We appreciate France's help in Afghanistan.

[Atlantic Friend]

Aw, shucks, just doing our job here ! lol

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[BartMan1]

But isn't the Atlantic Alliance critical to American security? Sadly, no. Right now it de facto does not exist and we are in no greater danger due to its absence. Instead, the key is not to force Europe to be an ally, but to ensure by our absence that it is a friend — or at least a Swiss-like neutral — in the present fight against terrorists and their sponsors.

Truly the heart of the matter....