Replies

1. Prohibition failed because the Mann act lacked sufficient powers to enforce the law. Enforcement was given to the Treasury Department instead of the Justice Department and FBI. So while that was a failed attempt at moral enforcement, it does not prove that morals cannot be enforced by legislature, it merely requires a well drafted statute and proper enforcement.

2. The states rights retreat will not work because of the Full Faith and Credit clause. Right now, it looks like the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) will be struck down by a federal judge in Florida and the federal rule allowing states to ignore the marriages of sister states will be voided. If that happens, Full Faith and Credit will be used to force folks to accept a Massachusetts marriage.

3. I knew plenty of folks who thought homosexuality was chic and dabbled in it during high school/college. As society's stigma against homosexuality ends, there is less pressure for people to conform to traditional norms.

4. Marriage rates have gone south farther in the Scandinavian nations than the US.

I do not deny that Robinson's marriage was in trouble. That's my point. If a marriage is on the margin, society has to do everything to support the marriage. De-stigmatizing homosexuality, as we have done with adultery, does not do that.

5. Okay, so you'll let Fluffy be tortured. Yet where do you draw the line before what you consider an unacceptable enforcement of morality? I support animal cruelty laws, not based on animals having any rights except to taste really good with barbecue sauce, but just that I find such activities repugnant.

6. To making marriages like the Spears fiasco harder, that is a hard problem.

I like the idea of covenant marriages. They do have waiting periods, both for getting in and getting out. If we could figure out a way to encourage them, that would be a good thing.

Ending no fault, divorce on demand would be another. Even if you consider marriage as just a basic contract, rather than a scared covenant, it shouldn;t be easier to break a marriage contract than a contract to pay for your Dominos Pizza. Unilateral divorce should be limited to cases of adultery, abuse or addiction. The wrong party, i.e the abusive drunk who can't keep it in his pants, should not just get half.

I do have to give major props to "Beelzebubba."

5. I believer your declaration of victory is a tad premature.

1. " it does not prove that morals cannot be enforced by legislature,"

Maybe not, but it does show the collossally negative results of such an attempt.

2. " Full Faith and Credit will be used to force folks to accept a Massachusetts marriage."

Good points here.

3. "As society's stigma against homosexuality ends, there is less pressure for people to conform to traditional norms."

Would legislation prevent this ending to the ending of society's stigma? Would legislation prevent gays from falling in love with each other? No. Gays aren't going away. As long as they are born American and pay taxes, I don't see a legal reason to prevent their civil unions.

4. "If a marriage is on the margin, society has to do everything to support the marriage. De-stigmatizing homosexuality, as we have done with adultery, does not do that."

Yeah, but 'society' can do NOTHING to bring people back together who've fallen out of love. You can be a matchmaker and encourage healthy relationships to thrive and continue, but good luck on getting bitter people who've fallen out of love back together, regardless of orientation.

5. "Okay, so you'll let Fluffy be tortured. Yet where do you draw the line before what you consider an unacceptable enforcement of morality? I support animal cruelty laws, not based on animals having any rights except to taste really good with barbecue sauce, but just that I find such activities repugnant."

I support animal testing that benefits humans and would support legislation to make it (testing) as painless and effective (so as to not waste the animal's life) as possible. I would also support legislation that makes just-plain-cruel behavior (teenagers torching kittens,etc.) a crime. Other than that, animals should be petted, eaten, or left alone.

6. "Ending no fault, divorce on demand would be another. Even if you consider marriage as just a basic contract, rather than a scared covenant, it shouldn;t be easier to break a marriage contract than a contract to pay for your Dominos Pizza. Unilateral divorce should be limited to cases of adultery, abuse or addiction. The wrong party, i.e the abusive drunk who can't keep it in his pants, should not just get half."

We're in agreement here.

"I do have to give major props to "Beelzebubba."

[nods and tips cap]

7. "5. I believer your declaration of victory is a tad premature."

5? My declaration was only a joke to ensure a good, intelligent response. To which I say "Mission Accomplished"!