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Putin: Ally or Terrorist? (Russian FSB/KGB Real Culprits Behind "Chechen Terrorism")
The New American ^ | February 2002 | William Jasper

Posted on 09/21/2004 8:24:29 PM PDT by GIJoel

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To: Luis Gonzalez

No. Drawing moral equivalency of propaganda and agendas.

Have a nice night :)


81 posted on 09/21/2004 10:54:21 PM PDT by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Luis, if you would be so kind as to reply, did you have a chance to take a look at the threads I mentioned above??? Please read them and get back to me when you get the chance. Thanks.


82 posted on 09/21/2004 10:57:45 PM PDT by GIJoel
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To: Luis Gonzalez

.


83 posted on 09/21/2004 11:03:52 PM PDT by Bayou City (Texas Dem's are going down...Big Time!)
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To: jess35
This reminds me of the cries of "The Jews are responsible" leveled by some of the lunatic fringe following the world trade center attacks.

Exactly what I said about the same last thread like this one.

84 posted on 09/21/2004 11:07:02 PM PDT by MarMema (next year in constantinople!)
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To: Calpernia

Well, liberal, anti-American editorial boards such as The Guardian UK are in favor of Putin's rollback of Democracy in Russia, Al Gore supports Putin's centralization of power, Justin Raimondo does as well.

Meanwhile, the WSJ, The Weekly Standard, and National Review have expressed concerns over Putin.

Take a side.


85 posted on 09/21/2004 11:08:21 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
My side sees ozone in your future.


86 posted on 09/21/2004 11:10:31 PM PDT by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: GIJoel

They're here!


87 posted on 09/21/2004 11:10:53 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: Calpernia

Are you threatening me newbie?


88 posted on 09/21/2004 11:11:52 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Threat? I don't threat. I stand my ground.


89 posted on 09/21/2004 11:17:29 PM PDT by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: GIJoel
"We regret that the western governments fail to see that it is Russian governmental structures that organize these terrorist acts and that it is Russian agents that carry out these terrorist acts. There is a plenty of evidence to this."
everyone is entitled to their opinion and a right to interpret facts as they see them. here's mine:

vladmir putin did not structure and organize the murder of hundreds of little kids, in the MOSTLY Russian Orthodox section of Russia. And anybody who thinks so, is in MY opinion, nuttier than a fruit cake with extra walnuts.

90 posted on 09/21/2004 11:19:09 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (the madridification of our election is now officially underway.)
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To: All

91 posted on 09/21/2004 11:20:48 PM PDT by MarMema (next year in constantinople!)
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To: MarMema

Does the Marxist agenda allow Haldol?


92 posted on 09/21/2004 11:23:34 PM PDT by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: John Valentine

The Moscow Theatre talking point came from here: http://www.marxist.com/Russia/moscow_chechen_attack.html

Talking point central.


93 posted on 09/21/2004 11:24:40 PM PDT by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Not sure what to make of your post. Let me know if you read the threads I mentioned. As I said before, good job in here.


94 posted on 09/21/2004 11:26:36 PM PDT by GIJoel
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To: GIJoel
It's difficult to know what to believe in articles like this because so few of the assertions are actually verified with hard facts. But I have a few comments:

1. Newspaper stories from Chechneya are not the basis for NATO's evaluation of Russian military strength. That kind of evaluation is based on a multitude of hard evidence such as satellite recon photos, eyewitness accounts from inside Russia, communications intercepts, etc.

2. Be wary of people who use historical data to promote great predictors of the future. You see this done all the time by people who are selling something, and usually they are distorting and carefully selecting their facts to "fit" history into the predictions somebody made years before.

3. Several other Russian defectors have written a number of highly alarmist books which sell reasonably well to hard line anti-Soviets in the West. They make good money form their writing but many of their predictions and warnings prove to be false.

4. The CFR is not a far left organization. There's another think tank in D.C. that is almost a Soviet front group but its name escapes me.

5. The story I read about the FSB getting caught bombing an apartment building went something like this--a building manager catches an FSB agent leaving the basement where a bomb has been planted. The building manager questions the FSB agent about what he's doing there, then the agent gives him a business card with a phone number that the local police traced back to an FSB office in the Moscow area. Now if this story is true, the FSB hardly looks like the master chess players that this author portrays them to be. They look more like keystone cops. So either this apartment bombing story is a fabrication or the FSB/KGB is not so brilliant after all.

95 posted on 09/21/2004 11:28:35 PM PDT by carl in alaska (Throw deep........you're already in the fourth quarter.)
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To: Calpernia
"I stand my ground."

Pssst, kid...there's no "ground", this is the Internet, so you can go ahead and drop the Scarlet Pimpernel act.

Putin's KGB is reshaping Russia into something similar to the Soviet Union of old, taking power, and organizing its armies; the Kremlin is reverting to old form right in front of everyone's eyes.

And there's no way that's a good turn of events for the U.S.

Totalitarianism back in Russia doesn't give us an ally in the war on terror, it adds an enemy.

96 posted on 09/21/2004 11:44:50 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: Calpernia

I don't know, but at this rate I hope Free Republic can hand it out. Otherwise a really good forum is going to sink into the gutter.


97 posted on 09/22/2004 12:35:29 AM PDT by MarMema (next year in constantinople!)
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To: GIJoel
Alright I read them. It tells me Russia is backing some of the Arab states and selling them arms and ammunition.So what? Most everybody in the world knows that.

What you are saying is because they do that they [Russia] is calling all the shots and telling them what to do.Well I got news for you.Lots of other nations like France and Germany supply them with arms and planes . Are they controlling them to.

Here's another hint. Nobody is anywhere near as responsible for the present power of the PLO and Yassar Arafat as the is United States .

He was on his last leg with about sixty thugs when Bill Clinton dug him up and installed him in the west bank. Since then we have poured millions of US dollars in his pockets and made him what he is today.

We have provide over 70% of the funding for the 18 refugee camps that are home to his constituents since 1948.

Since nobody has put near the money in the Arabs pocket or the PLO pockets as we have I guess we are really behind all these terrorist attacks around the world even the ones against the US.

I guess we ordered them to make all these attacks against us so we could then have an excuse to go and attack them so we could get control of the oil and establish the New World Order. Yep. Now I understand.

Come on man, you seem to be an intelligent sincere person. Get your head out of the book and open your eyes to what these people are doing and not what they are saying. You are lost in your conspiracy theory.

It's like Jeffery Dalmer[spelling?] has got you bent over and all you're thinking about is who gave him your address.

All these nations have supplied these people with money or arms at different times and for different reasons.

But it is still the Muslims who are picking the targets, pulling the triggers and advancing their goals .

98 posted on 09/22/2004 12:37:51 AM PDT by mississippi red-neck
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To: mississippi red-neck
Red-neck, are you reading the same articles I posted on those two threads. If you did, then there is something within your soul that rises up and overwhelms the facts. Your list of cause and effect is not a list of cause and effect at all. I'm too tired to dissect your post right now, but somewhere along the line you switched channels. If you want to comment on a new "station," please tell me what your (heart and mind) is listening to, but don't confuse what is constantly playing in your mind with "We Are The Next Target" and "Muslims In Terrorist Disguise." In other words, forget what you think you know for the moment and be willing to travel a different path. You can always go back to where you started if the trail makes you feel uncomfortable.
99 posted on 09/22/2004 12:55:46 AM PDT by GIJoel
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To: GIJoel

Absolute unmitigated, knee-deep bull$hit!

And, I suppose, Bush was the eeeeevil mastermind behind 911, also.

Boob!


100 posted on 09/22/2004 7:22:05 AM PDT by broadsword (Weren't there a couple of giant Buddhist statues in Afghanistan? What happened to them?)
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