Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: VOA
Here is my question about Israel & the Jews. God formed a sacred covenant with the Jewish people via Moses. However, as a Christian, I believe that the only salvation is thru faith in Christ (John 3.16) - this is the "new" covenant.

Has the coming of Christ has superseded the old covenant of God with the Jews? And insofar as the Jews do not accept the divinity of Christ, what is their standing vis a vis the Father? Which is the relevant covenant for our Jewish brethern?

This is an honest question, intended only for Jews & Christians of good faith. If you are a troll, or an atheist, don't answer.

14 posted on 10/08/2004 9:09:26 PM PDT by Teplukin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies ]


To: Teplukin
Which is the relevant covenant for our Jewish brethern?

The New Covenant was for everyone. I don't recall there being any grandfather clauses.

17 posted on 10/08/2004 9:11:07 PM PDT by Grey Ghost II
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies ]

To: Teplukin

It's a very good question. Individuals must belong to Jesus Christ to be saved. But the nation of Israel will be preserved through the remnant (believing Jews).

Most Jews and Christians do not know it or will not acknowledge it, but Jesus IS Jehovah. The "Angel of the Lord" spoken of so often in the Old Testament is none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.


18 posted on 10/08/2004 9:13:50 PM PDT by mywholebodyisaweapon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies ]

To: Teplukin

I believe that the answers to your questions are contained in the book of Hebrews.


23 posted on 10/08/2004 9:18:12 PM PDT by TwoWolves (The only kind of control the liberals don't want is self control.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies ]

To: Teplukin
This is an honest question, intended only for Jews & Christians of good faith.

I'm no theologian, but I think I'll give a quick try at a summary (IMHO).

I think the general Christian community view is that The Law has been
superceded by the new covenant.

At the same time, various segments of the Christendom still pay a lot of attention to
the Old Testament, especially the passage about those that curse the Jews will be in
for big trouble.

And a fair amount of Christendom does follow the portions of Revelations
that says many Jews will eventually be brought to faith in Christ

For these and various other reasons, Christians (especially of the
evangelical/fundamentalist American strain) support Israel/"the Jews", even if
most Jews in Israel are not Christian.

At the same time, I suspect a lot of Christians in America also support Israel
not from any sort of deep theological reasoning, but from a spectrum of reasons
ranging from lingering guilt at not preventing/curtailing The Holocaust
to pure pragmatism in finding a friendly ally in the sole democratic country
in an important region.
25 posted on 10/08/2004 9:19:44 PM PDT by VOA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies ]

To: Teplukin
Has the coming of Christ has superseded the old covenant of God with the Jews? And insofar as the Jews do not accept the divinity of Christ, what is their standing vis a vis the Father? Which is the relevant covenant for our Jewish brethern?

Let me take a stab at it. The covenent was not unconditional -- it was a contract which could be voided for non-performance. From Deuteronomy:

8:58 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD; 28:59 Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance. 28:60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee. 28:61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed. 28:62 And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the LORD thy God. 28:63 And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.
From many passages, Jesus implied that Israel had not borne fruit, that they had not lived up to their end of the contract, and that He had arrived to set up a new covenant. See Matthew and the parable of the vinyard, along with the one that follows it:
21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

In Jesus time, Israel split in two directions. Some Jews, along with a lot of gentiles, formed Christianity. The rest went with the Pharisees, which evolved into modern Talmudic Judaism.

The above is a good summary of the "Replacement Theology" line of reasoning

122 posted on 10/13/2004 4:21:25 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (That which does not kill me had better be able to run away damn fast.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson