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To: durasell

In an 1819 letter to Willam Short, Jefferson wrote

"Abstracting what is really his [Jesus] from the rubbish in which it is buried [the New Testament], easily distinguished by its lustre from the dross of his biographers [Matthew, Mark, Luke, John], and as separable from that as the diamond from the dunghill ... The establishment of the innocent and genuine character of this benevolent moralist [!] and the rescuing it form the imputation of imposture, which has resulted form artificial systems, [these artificial systems Jefferson footnotes as "the immaculate conception of Jesus, his deification, the creation of the world by him, his miraculous powers, his resurrection and visible ascension, ... the Trinity, original sin, atonement, regeneration, election, orders of Hierarchy, &c."] invented by ultra-Christian sects, unauthorized by a single word ever uttered by him, is a most desirable object, and one to which Priestly [father of Unitarianism] has successfully devoted his labors and learning."


As Christians we are obliged to speak the truth in all circumstances. The Cause of Christ is not helped when overzealous conservative writers seek to "return the nation to its biblical foundation" by doing what they so often charge liberals with -- rewriting history. The facts are what they are. The words and deeds of the leading men of the American revolution are readily accessible to any one who will take the time to search them out.

Jefferson expressed on more than one occasion his expectation that in a few years the whole nation would embrace his Unitarianism.


27 posted on 11/13/2004 6:10:02 AM PST by Credo_ut_intelligam
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To: Credo_ut_intelligam

He made that apparent in the Jefferson Bible. However, this country will never abandon its Calvinist roots.


29 posted on 11/13/2004 6:14:34 AM PST by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: Credo_ut_intelligam
[these artificial systems Jefferson footnotes as "the immaculate conception of Jesus, his deification, the creation of the world by him, his miraculous powers, his resurrection and visible ascension, ... the Trinity, original sin, atonement, regeneration, election, orders of Hierarchy, &c."]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you take all that out of most modern churches, what's left couldn't be called Christian religion, could it?

31 posted on 11/13/2004 6:37:29 AM PST by Huck (Any man, gay or straight, can marry a woman. That's equal treatment under the law.)
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To: Credo_ut_intelligam

People seem to forget that the heavy handed involvement of the Church of England in the politics of the day helped form the founder's opinions.


38 posted on 11/13/2004 9:44:28 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Credo_ut_intelligam; hadit2here
"In an 1819 letter to Willam Short, Jefferson wrote "Abstracting what is really his [Jesus] from the rubbish in which it is buried [the New Testament], easily distinguished by its lustre from the dross of his biographers [Matthew, Mark, Luke, John], and as separable from that as the diamond from the dunghill ... The establishment of the innocent and genuine character of this benevolent moralist [!] and the rescuing it form the imputation of imposture, which has resulted form artificial systems, [these artificial systems Jefferson footnotes as "the immaculate conception of Jesus, his deification, the creation of the world by him, his miraculous powers, his resurrection and visible ascension, ... the Trinity, original sin, atonement, regeneration, election, orders of Hierarchy, &c."] invented by ultra-Christian sects, unauthorized by a single word ever uttered by him, is a most desirable object, and one to which Priestly [father of Unitarianism] has successfully devoted his labors and learning.""

Credo ut intelligam (I believe in order that I might understand),

I would suggest you do not understand just yet...

You may believe an innocuous letter counters the 'officially' published and agreed to Declaration of Independence penned by our Founding Fathers -that which allowed -better yet, established our right to separate from a 'ruler' and establish our country -separate from that which denied our God given rights -NOT as you imply separate from God -you suggest that our Founding Fathers evoked God as basis yet denied God in founding??? --AND your innocuous "fact's" prove this??? Do you have a copy of any rough drafts of any books in the bible -I hope not? The facts are what they are; however, their relevance is what it is AS WELL!

Quote from Declaration of Independence:

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."

self-evident = no 'facts' required

Did you know this fact: "In 1776 Thomas Jefferson, then a member of the committee to draft a declaration of independence, was chosen by the committee to write the draft. This he did, with some minor corrections from James Madison and an embellishment from Benjamin Franklin, the document was offered to the Congress on the first day of July. The congress modified it somewhat, abbreviating certain wording and removing points that were outside of general agreement. The Declaration was adopted on the Fourth of July."

Did you know Thomas Jefferson signed the Declaration?

Now, it appears this is a favorite topic for you?

An excerpt from your posting on: The Founding Fathers and Deism:

"For example, in an 1831 letter to Willam Short, Jefferson wrote -blah, blah, blah...

-and again with:

"As Christians we are obliged to speak the truth in all circumstances. The Cause of Christ is not helped when overzealous conservative writers seek to "return the nation to its biblical foundation" by doing what they so often charge liberals with -- rewriting history. The facts are what they are. The words and deeds of the leading men of the American revolution are readily accessible to any one who will take the time to search them out."

Your crusade for 'truth' regarding this issue is based upon irrelevance relativist secular propaganda... What of your cause -please explain specifically, what the 'Cause of Christ' you champion is?

40 posted on 11/13/2004 11:20:13 AM PST by DBeers
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