A better book about that butcher is:
Posted on 11/19/2004 8:53:17 PM PST by BigRedState
Oh wait. That's the background, not his hand. His right hand is holding his shirt by his side. I think.
That's it!
Typical. Thanks.
I'm not sure what the guys are doing .. but they don't look armed
With that said .. I can understand the French shooting off warning shots around them like they did .. but it also looks like things got out of hand with shooting into the crowd
King Leopold was a criminal butcher. Being Scottish I may have an affinity for things French.
A better book about that butcher is:
That's what it looked like to me, but I couldn't tell for sure
Thanks for all you help ... now I wish I understood their language ... that song at end of the video .. I wish I knew what they were singing
"no guns in the hands of civilians that were fired on at Kent state."
Right. Instead they threw chunks of cinder block concrete and tear gas cannisters at the Guard, surrounded them and chanted "Kill! Kill! Kill!"
Don't get sentimental about Kent State. The Guard was wrong for panicking, but the protestors were just as guilty - more so when you consider they were burning down buildings, assaulting fire men, taking small store owners out into the streets and beating them.
Its amazing how Kent State has become myth.
Christ sake - I was trying to show how people can create these overblown stories. Sorry for being nuanced. This video is a sham in my opinion. It is put out by one of the groups that wants Americans to get involved on their behalf - the poster just joined to post this.
I have been following this thread with some interest. I am hesitant to pass judgement, not because I don't believe the French did not fire into the crowd. They are clearly shooting at the crowd. However, we don't know what triggered the shooting. Having seen, and been involved in, many of these types of protests in Africa, they normally start of peacefully, but the protesters get more daring and angry as time goes on, until the situation is on edge. It's also clear from the video there were some ground rules, i.e. don't cross the wall in front of the soldiers. From other reports there were widespread looting, hacking off limbs with machetes, killing of civilians etc. I can't tell from the video who or what the protesters are, if they are from the same groups who was responsible for that, what the French were protecting, where the crowd was going and what their intent was. They don't seem to be armed, but there are Ivorian soldiers walking among them that are. In such a volatile situation, all it would take is one of those guys to shoot his rifle in the air, or someone to throw somthing at the French, and it will trigger a response from the French. Remember, they are there protecting whatever is behind them, and will shoot at any real or perceived threat. Also, I don't think they have been in that situation before, facing a loud protest from a numerically superior group, which I can tell you, is very intimidating.
So, all of that leaves me unsure. It is extremely unnecessary and sad for civilians to be shot in this manner, and it is sad that the French soldiers were put in a position where they did it. We have to also consider the overall climate in IC at the moment, the fact that in the French minds the "same" people just killed 9 of their soldiers, and the Ivorians thinking that the French just destroyed their ability to strike the rebels. Civil wars are ugly.
did not much care for his native land or his subjects, all of which he dismissed as "small country, small people."
** Very interesting... I suppose if that's what a leader thinks of his own country he won't think much of other countries. How sad. Thanks for the recommendation.
No blood for coco! BTW, even if it isn't true that civilians weren't innocent, don't you think this sort of thing would make the news?
Absolutely, this is yet another African tragedy being ignored, apart from the token UN peace force.
If it doesn't register dollar signs in their eyes, then screw whoever!
I was born in 1950.
Anytime.
But that's not the point. You want to ask: "Is this news event any more or less important than the Marine shooting the jihadi in the Mosque?" The Marine shooting dominated the world's media for a full 72 hours, being the top story for three days. Was his actions less justified than that of these French troops? If his actions were more justified, then why have the news media chosen to trumpet the Marine story over this event? It is clear that more innocent people were killed and injured in this event in the Ivory Coast than were in Fallujah during the same news cycle, but you wouldn't know that if all you saw were NBC/CBS/ABC/CNN news and read the NYTimes/WaPost.
If the climate in the IC was such that you could justify this event, then surely the climate in Fallujah with beheadings, soldiers taking up firing positions in civilian apartment complexes, firing positions in Mosques, booby trapping corpses, fake surrenders, and so forth, surely that climate more than justifies the Marine's actions.
You can't condemn the Marine without condemning the French. But where is the indignation about the events in the IC from the Red Cross? From Amnesty International? From Human Rights Watch?
Why are the mainstream media outlets not running this video 24/7 like they were with the Marine shooting?
The still picture makes it look like a pretty big crowd. anyone got an estimate on the number of people?
Anyone have an estimate on the number of French troops?
What was the crowd's actions towards the french troops? Were they advancing on them, throwing rocks at them?
The sad thing is,, depending upon their orders, those troops might not have had a lot of choice.
I dealt with huge crowds like that in Somalia and they can be tremendously destructive
If you're a French platoon leader and you've orders to stop rioters or protests (which can easily turn into riots) and you have no non lethal options (Like tear gas or pepper spray). How exactly do you stop an advancing crowd of hundreds or thousands with your 40-50 troops?
After warning shots fail, you're options are pretty limited
You absolutely DO NOT EVER let a crowd that outnumbers you like that get within touching distance of your people.
Your soldiers would get dragged down and torn limb from limb
There's a lot we don't know about what happened here.
People say the video looks bad - welcome to duty in the third world (particularly in Africa). I came very close to having to make a call like that myself - fortunately reinforcements arrived in time
In spite of my distatse for their government - I have no beef with the French units I have served beside.
Their officers were professional and their troops proficient
Their government is as much of an embarrassment to them as ours was to us during the Clinton years
There's a lot here that we don't know. But having faced a few riots in Africa myself, I'll withold judgement.
All the best
Qatar-6
I am 100% with you on that one. The Marine in Fallujah was absolutely justified in what he did, and the double standard is nauseating. It's clear that where the US is not involved, or conversely where Africa is involved, invariably the MSM and so-called human rights watchdogs don't bat an eyelid when something like this happens.
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