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To: Fred Nerks

......the crazy psychopath to whom the founding of this cult is attributed. The 'prophet' was a schizophrenic who also suffered numerous epileptic episodes
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As a professional in the mental health field I would like to see the professional diagnosis of old Mohammed before I agree he was a 'psychopath'/ schizophrenic. I will continue my research into the historical founder of Islam with a keen eye as to the sources who portray him. You don't expect me to take one source or your word for it do you? Does epilepsy disqualify one from being human? Does Van Gogh's mental illness make him less of a genius painter? Or less of a man? No it does not. I do not accept your premise, even if true (that he was wacko), that mental illness automatically makes the works and legacy of an individual worthless and evil.

Plenty of people have had reason to demonize this man and to distort his words and works for their gain. That was the point of my post to which you took such vehement exception. But for the sake of pursuing your argument let's say he was mentally ill: Does that mean his creation, Islam in his own words, and not the subsequent editors' words, is vile, evil and without redeeming grace as you and so many here assert? Is the religion utterly identical with the alleged mental state of Mohammed? If your answer is yes, as it appears to be, what are we to do with all the followers of Islam? If they are evil shall we kill them all? Convert them? What?


52 posted on 11/22/2004 5:27:00 PM PST by stefanbc (Have a nice left-wing suicide : hate to be ya)
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To: stefanbc

Educate yourself. Read. Research. You decide. I have been having this same discussion with people like you for three years. It's boring.
Mohammad is islam. Islam is mohammad. Take the 'prophet' out of islam and islam doesn't exist...the entire koran is nothing but the 'prophet's' plagiarism from ancient hebrew texts and some arab/mesopotamian lore thrown in.
Sell's biography will provide you with something extremely important that isn't in the koran: chronology. You will then understand just how and why and when the 'verses' were 'revealed' to mohammad. When it suited him.
But don't take my word for anything. The last thing I care about is convincing you. All you are being asked to do is READ A BOOK OR TWO!


64 posted on 11/22/2004 6:16:01 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Understand Evil: Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD. Click Fred Nerks for link.)
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To: stefanbc

The Caliphate:Its Rise,Decline and Fall.

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Books/Muir/Caliphate

There you go. Completely non-judgemental. Historical. My copy cost me hundreds of dollars. You get to read if for free!


65 posted on 11/22/2004 6:25:24 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Understand Evil: Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD. Click Fred Nerks for link.)
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To: stefanbc

I'm still laughing at your first response to me. "As a professional in the mental health field..."
I am at the moment reading Mein Kampf. It's mind-numbingly boring, but I will persevere. Herr Hitler was also the 'historical founder' of a system of belief. Daresay you would hold to it that he was maligned and misunderstood.
I think we can dispense with the need for a diagnosis. Mohammad's 'episodes' were documented by arabian sources and are clearly identified by Edward Sell in the numerous footnotes.(In the original arabic!) Whatever mohammad and hitler 'suffered' from was nothing...compared to the millions, hundreds of millions who died as a result of what 'ailed' them.


68 posted on 11/22/2004 6:56:23 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Understand Evil: Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD. Click Fred Nerks for link.)
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To: stefanbc
I do not accept your premise, even if true (that he was wacko), that mental illness automatically makes the works and legacy of an individual worthless and evil.

stef, lemme see if I get this particular point of yours. You seem to be saying Hey, so what if the guy was mentally ill, it doesn't mean that people shouldn't do what he told them God wants them to do.

You compared Mohammed to Vincent Van Gogh, asking whether mental illness made Van Gogh less human or less gifted as an artist. Now, I consider myself pretty open-minded, but I don't think your analogy holds water. It's one thing to admire the aesthetic work of an individual who is mentally ill. It's quite another thing to take his advice on how to live your life and which people around you should live by your grace or die by your hands.

I'm not arguing all of the points you've raised in your post; I'm not qualified to do that. Despite having worked with a Muslim or two for a while, I don't have enough firsthand knowledge of Islam to have a credible personal opinion of Mohammed's mental state or of the religion's tenets. But to say that *if* he was mentally ill, it doesn't make the religion that he created any less valid... strikes me as odd, to say the least. I would never ask my neighborhood "wacko" (to use your word) to tell me how to run my life.
93 posted on 11/22/2004 9:13:02 PM PST by geekchick (& Saddam was an evil madman who slaughtered his people, but that doesn't invalidate his presidency..)
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