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Most privileged Americans avoid the military
post-gazette.com ^ | December 12, 2004 | Jack Kelly

Posted on 12/12/2004 10:08:17 PM PST by paudio

Being inside the club reminded me of how much America's elite has degenerated.

The Union League was founded in 1862 to support the policies of President Abraham Lincoln. On the walls are portraits of prominent Philadelphians who gave their lives fighting for the Union. There are also plaques -- with many, many names on them -- of Union League members who died fighting in World Wars I and II. You can find similar plaques at Ivy League colleges.

I saw no plaque honoring Union League members who died fighting in Vietnam and subsequent conflicts.

(Excerpt) Read more at post-gazette.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Politics/Elections
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1 posted on 12/12/2004 10:08:17 PM PST by paudio
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: paudio
Elites also used to set the high water mark for refinement and culture. Now they rut in the mud like pigs.
3 posted on 12/12/2004 10:12:35 PM PST by Texas_Jarhead (I believe in American Exceptionalism! Do you?)
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To: paudio

They make it into service academies. Thanks to reforms, they've made sure that most of them make it through where 2/3 used to fail out.


4 posted on 12/12/2004 10:21:20 PM PST by SteveMcKing
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To: paudio
There are also plaques -- with many, many names on them -- of Union League members who died fighting in World Wars I and II. You can find similar plaques at Ivy League colleges.
I saw no plaque honoring Union League members who died fighting in Vietnam and subsequent conflicts.

Call me crazy, but it might have something to do with there being 10 times more Americans killed in World War I and World War II than in "Vietnam and subsequent conflicts."

5 posted on 12/12/2004 10:22:04 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: SteveMcKing

Please cite your data, both where you got the socioeconomic backgrounds of service academy applicants, entrants, and graduates and where you got those attrition rates.


6 posted on 12/12/2004 10:31:13 PM PST by A Simple Soldier
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To: paudio

During the middle ages in Roman Catholic Europe, male members of the elite had only two occupational choices in life: the military or the clergy. Even in pre-WWI Britain, the military was one of the few respectable occupations for aristocrats. During the US Civil War, though, many upper class Yankees (dominated by wealthy businessmen and professionals) did not fight. Wealthy landowning Southerners, still adhering to the older aristocratic view that with wealth and position comes an obligation to the serve in the military, were more likely to volunteer.
<p
The people who started the wars fought in them as well, or at least their sons, brothers and nephews did. Adds a certain perspective.


7 posted on 12/12/2004 10:34:22 PM PST by Siamese Princess
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To: Strategerist
Good Point.

The writer apparently is lost in a past that he could never know.

Why would he even bother?

8 posted on 12/12/2004 10:35:24 PM PST by smoothsailing (Eagles Up !!)
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To: Strategerist
WWI: 53,402 American battle deaths, plus 63,114 non-theater deaths.
WWII: 291,557 battle deaths. 113,842 non-theater deaths
Korea: 33,741 battle deaths. 2,827 other deaths in theater, 17,730 other non-theater deaths.
Vietnam: 47,410 battle deaths. 10,789 other deaths in theater, 32,000 non-theater deaths.
Gulf War: 147 battle deaths. 382 other deaths in theater, 1,565 non-theater deaths.

Source: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004615.html

9 posted on 12/12/2004 10:36:57 PM PST by Koblenz (Holland: a very tolerant country. Until someone shoots you on a public street in broad daylight...)
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To: Texas_Jarhead

Elites also used to set the high water mark for refinement and culture. Now they rut in the mud like pigs.


Are you thinking of anyone in particular?


10 posted on 12/12/2004 10:37:45 PM PST by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: paudio
"In Robert Heinlein's novel "Starship Troopers," only veterans could vote. That goes too far. But suppose we made it a requirement for holding federal elective office that candidates for the House and Senate must have an honorable discharge from the U.S. armed forces?

This would require a constitutional amendment, and that would be hard. But it beats trying to bring back an unneeded and unwanted draft just to get the most privileged among us to do their duty. And the principle is sound. Those who are unwilling to serve should not be permitted to lead."

Not a bad idea . . .

11 posted on 12/12/2004 10:40:15 PM PST by Neanderthal
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To: durasell
"Are you thinking of anyone in particular?"

No Sir/Mam
12 posted on 12/12/2004 10:43:14 PM PST by Texas_Jarhead (I believe in American Exceptionalism! Do you?)
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To: Koblenz

Basically the same numbers I used except there seems to be an inconsistency...the "non-theater" deaths listed for WWI and WWII are "in-theater" but non battle deaths. (Disease mostly.)

And I have no idea where the 30,000 "non-theater" Vietnam deaths would come from.


13 posted on 12/12/2004 10:43:56 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: Texas_Jarhead

Just wondering...the image of mud rutting privileged was both intriguing and disturbing.


14 posted on 12/12/2004 10:45:16 PM PST by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: paudio

What's the soulution ? Have the government force you to serve in the military after HS graduation ? Please, stop the do gooders !


15 posted on 12/12/2004 10:54:30 PM PST by John Lenin
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To: paudio

IF I was writing the next DRAFT LAW...the children of Veterans would be Exempt.

Everyone else is ELIGABLE!

The children of {serving} Congressmen and Senators would be classed 1A+, {Note the "+", these folks MUST serve ASAP (unless they have served)}.
Same, for the kids of serving and past Presidents & VPs.

My DRAFT would ignore Gender.


16 posted on 12/12/2004 10:55:25 PM PST by PizzaDriver (an heinleinian/libertarian)
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To: Neanderthal

on "Starship Troopers", and the rest of Heinlein's works...
Assume "everyone" gets 1 vote & veterans get 2.

What is the result?


17 posted on 12/12/2004 11:01:34 PM PST by PizzaDriver (an heinleinian/libertarian)
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To: Texas_Jarhead
there has been many astounding changes in our demographics, but one that really bothers me is that we have so many now that have never faced any real adversity...

it used to be that most men in Congress were veterans.....that is not true anymore....

we have the majority of people in this country that have never known war, poverty, need, poor health, early death of older relatives or death of the very young...

the majority now have never served and they may not even know anyone who has served....

so how can we increase our loyalty and our respect for our soldiers if the majority have no common belief in them?

18 posted on 12/12/2004 11:07:48 PM PST by cherry
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To: Koblenz
Not to be crude or anything like that, but the total number of troops dead we suffered in WWI, WWI, Korea, Vietnam and the Gulf War I was 668,506 -- about 1/3rd of the casualties faced by Japan in WWII(1.7 million), about 1/5th of what Germany faced in WWII (3.25 million) and about 1/20th of what the Soviet Union lost in WWII (13.7 million)

It shows we do care a lot about our troops
19 posted on 12/12/2004 11:30:29 PM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
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To: paudio
Most privileged Americans avoid the military

Most poor Americans avoid the military, too.

20 posted on 12/12/2004 11:58:21 PM PST by 10mm
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