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To: xsysmgr

Actually, it doesn't take 60 votes to break a fillibuster. It only takes 3/5 of those present and voting. So the "simple" way to break a fillibuster is to keep the Senate in session all night. Let as many of the Republicans sleep in their offices as you need. As soon as the number of Democrats in the chamber drops sufficiently, that is, about 15 of them go home, call all the Republicans back for an immediate cloture vote.


14 posted on 12/15/2004 2:22:35 PM PST by Lunkhead_01
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To: Lunkhead_01
Actually, it doesn't take 60 votes to break a fillibuster. It only takes 3/5 of those present and voting.

Sorry, but this is wrong. Per Senate Rule 22, "And if that question [cloture] shall be decided in the affirmative by three-fifths of the Senators duly chosen and sworn..."

Here's the way it works. When the time comes to vote on an issue, the presiding Senator asks if there are any objections to voting on the issue. If no one objects, the vote goes ahead. If any Senator objects - by declaring that additional debate is needed and he wants time to debate it - they either give him that time, or they agree to postpone that vote while moving on to other business.

Until 1917 there was no way to end debate on an issue (within the Senate rules). In 1917 they amended the Senate rules to allow for a vote of cloture, but the requirement for cloture is an affirmative vote by 60 Senators absolutely (3/5 of all 'Senators duly chosen and sworn') not just 3/5 of those who are there.

Here's the catch: If they decide to proceed with a 'real' filibuster, then the Dems can talk in waves - but any time that they choose to withdraw their objection to the vote, they can call for an immediate vote. ("I'm done debating now, let's vote.") Then the presiding Senator calls for a quorum, and within about an hour they have to vote. At that point, it's a simple majority (on things like consenting to judicial appointments) but it's a majority of those who are there when the roll is called about an hour after debate ends.

That means the objectors call the shots. They can talk as long as they want, most of them sleeping or whatever. They can even go home if they want. But the majority party (Republican) has to keep their majority within an hour of the Senate floor at all times or the vote may happen before they can get back.

The counter to this, in part, is that the presiding Senator can compel attendance to a quorum call. That means that if the Dems went home while only one person debated, the Republicans could object and have the Senate Master-at-arms go round up enough Senators to have a quorum (51 Senators). In practice, since the Republicans alone constitute a quorum (if they're all there) the Master-at-arms would stop looking when the Republicans were all registered as present. So if the Dems were really at home or something (not just down the hall or in their offices) they wouldn't have to come.

Now, if that all sounds like a stupid system, replace Dems with Republicans and vice versa. Read it as President Clinton appointing Hillary to the Supreme Court in 1993 (or President Hitlery appointing Bubba to the Supreme Court in 2009) and decide if those impediments are a good idea.

The basic premise of the NRO article is correct. We have to make them pay a political price, because we (will, someday) need those filibuster rules.
48 posted on 12/15/2004 3:11:13 PM PST by Gorjus
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To: Lunkhead_01

As soon as the number of Democrats in the chamber drops sufficiently, that is, about 15 of them go home, call all the Republicans back for an immediate cloture vote.



What do you do about the requirement of notification of a cloture vote?... isn't is 24 hours or maybe it's 48... In either case you can't just call the cloture vote as the rules now read.......


69 posted on 12/15/2004 4:48:51 PM PST by deport
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