Posted on 12/26/2004 5:04:42 PM PST by West Coast Conservative
LOL. If only Canada and New Zealand knew. The Orthodox lens as used by some is just so well .... different.
I am sure I didn't. Maybe you could help me with some of this some more.
I hate it when that happens.
:) Merry Christmas Hop.
Heh - thread drift is unavoidable, but I'm rather disappointed with this one. I really thought folks here were more reasonable, in the true sense of the word...
There is a huge difference between those two "wests" and an allegiance to the Russian empire. It's not a myth.
"Geez - you start out with a nice Ukrainian Election result thread, then Soros and the EU show up and, well, there goes the neighborhood...."
Ha!
Where are the latest results posted? I would like to see the tally figures.
Right back at ya, with a Happy New Year thrown in for good measure.
Click on the link in post 31. I already "announced" the final result, 54.5 to 41.5. See how close I get.
Yeah, the Franco-Spanish-Germanic "West" is more expansionist, actually gobbling up territory and now claims: Turkey, Azerbajan, Georgia, Armenia and Uzebekistan as their territory. It is also unChristiand, facist and has opposed us in every way for the past 5 years.
Funny, last I checked Canada and New Zealand were extreme socialists and anti-US, siding with France & Germany.
It's 55.6-40.6 now, but a lot of the ballots still out are in the East, so Yanukovich will probably exceed your expectations.
Then again, 70% of the overseas ballots are still out, which Yush won by 20% or so last time - so we'll see... ;)
K1avg and Torie are pals. Thanks. And my Russian-speaking eastern Ukranian Yushchenko-supporting wife thanks you too.
What nations are through your lens "Anglo Saxon"? Just curious. If we are taking gene pools, New Zealand is probably the purest of them all.
JB6
"The Federated Republic of Europe - the United States of Europe - that is what must be. National autonomy no longer suffices. Economic evolution demands the abolition of national frontiers. If Europe is to remain split into national groups, then Imperialism will recommence its work. Only a Federated Republic of Europe can give peace to the world."
Leon Trotsky (1879-1940), Russian revolutionary. Conversation at Smolny, Petrograd, 30 October 1917. Nice to see Trotsky's dream making such healthy progress 90 years later. Hasn't brought peace to the world, mind you.
"The driving role (r?le moteur) played by France and Germany, naturally we expect to exercise it for the good of the European Project."
"I have confidence in the future of Europe because I have confidence in the solidarity fo the Franco-German relationship."
"The 22nd of January shall henceforth be known as 'Franco-German Day'"
Jacques Chirac, French President since 1995. Speech at a joint meeting of German and French parliamentarians on 4th anniversary of Treaty of Versailles. Versailles, 22 January 2003.
"The future will belong to the Germans... when we build the House of Europe. In the next two years, we will make the process of European integration irreversible. This is a really big battle but it is worth the fight."
Helmut Kohl, German Chancellor 1982-1988, who presided over reunification of Germany but whose legacy was tarnished by a massive party financing scandal. Reported in Freedom Today, 1996.
"Germany, as the biggest and most powerful economic member state, will be the leader, whether we like it or not."
Theo Waigel, German politician, leader of leftist CSU and Minister of Finance 1989-1998. Father of the name 'Euro' for the currency - the French wanted to call it the Ecu but were persuade 'Euro' was more saleable in Germany.
"The Convention brought together a self-selected group of the European political elite, many of whom have their eyes on a career at European level, which is dependent on more and more integration. Not once in the 16 months I spent on the Convention did representatives question whether deeper integration is what the people of Europe want, whether it serves their best interests or whether it provides the best basis for a sustainable structure for an expanding Union."
Gisela Stuart, Labour Member of Parliament, Member of Constitutional Convention and Drafting Presidium. From The Making of Europe's Constitution, Fabian Society Pamphlet, 2003.
"The EU Charter of Fundamental Rights (ECR) will be no more binding than the Beano or the Sun".
Keith Vaz, Labour Minister for Europe, forced to resign after being dogged by sleaze allegations relating to sale of passports to dodgy Asian businessmen. Biarritz EU Summit, 2000. It has subsequently become clear that the CFR will be incorporated into any eventual European Consitution, unlike the once-popular childen's comic.
"[Italy joining the Euro at its launch] was a decision imposed from on high and the public had no choice in the matter."
Umberto Bossi (b 1943). Creator and leader of Italy's ultra-right separatist Northern League, sometime ally of Berlusconi's Forza Italia
"[The result was] disgraceful … we should never have given the vote to women and truck drivers."
Danish official working at the European Commission, on hearing the news that Danes had voted no to membership of the euro in September 2000.
"It is reasonable to ask whether such complicated and nuanced issues as the Nice Treaty ... are suitable subjects for referendums in the first place."
Independent Newspaper editorial, after the Irish refused to ratify the Nice Treaty in a referendum
"The creeping unification of Europe ... since the time of Jacques Delors [has been] managed by the bureaucrats from Brussels behind the back of the continent's population, behind the back of the citizens of individual member states"
V?clav Klaus. Second President of the Czech Republic, Former Czech Prime Minister and Finance Minister. Article in the European Journal, Dec 2003
"Europe's nations should be guided towards the super-state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation."
Jean Monnet, Founder of the European Movement. Former Cognac salesman and bureaucrat at the League of Nations. 1952
"No government dependent upon a democratic vote could possibly agree in advance to the sacrifice that any adequate plan [to build the EU] must involve. The people must be led slowly and unconsciously into their abandonment of their traditional economic defences..."
Lord (Peter) Thorneycroft, Privy Councillor, Conservative Party Chairman 1975-1981. Chairman of 'Design For Europe' Committee, 1947, quoted by Bill Jamieson in Britain Beyond Europe.
"I have never understood why public opinion about European ideas should be taken into account."
Raymond Barre, Mayor of Lyons and French Prime Minister 1976 - 1981 under Giscard d'Estaing
"European Army and a European Police Force lie at the end of the road to European Union."
Helmut Kohl, German Chancellor 1982-1988, who presided over reunification of Germany but whose legacy was tarnished by a massive party financing scandal. Source unknown but widely quoted as being said in 1992. He may have hoped this would sound reassuring
"Here in Brussels, a true European government has been born. I have governmental powers, I have executive powers for which there is no other name in the world, whether you like it or not, than government."
Romano Prodi, EU Commission President. European Parliament, November 1999. Steady there, big guy - the last Italian leader who got too big for his boots ended up hanging upside down from a lamp-post with his mistress!
"The Council of Ministers will have far more power over the budgets of the member states than the federal government in the United States has over the budget of Texas"
Jean-Claude Trichet, Head of European Central Bank. The European, 13th December 1998.
And finally some true words of wisdom and warning!
"Any nation which gives up its freedom in pursuit of economic advantage deserves to lose both."
Thomas Jefferson, US President 1801-1809.
I don't know who your "us" is, but it doesn't include me or most Americans. Who is your "east" and what are you so afraid of?
Well we know you're pro EU and Islam, you've defended both at every opportunity, so no surprise here. But I've posted some quotes from the EU founding fathers, rather different from our own, but maybe not so different for your mindset.
You are very welcome, and all the best to you and your wife, and latter of whom shows high intelligence and good character, by transcending tribalism, for more eternal values. :)
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