How to talk to an atheist (and you must)

Townhall.com ^ | January 24, 2005 | Mike S. Adams

[orionblamblam]

> they have enormous difficulty articulating what they DO believe.

They probably believe pretty much the same as you do, except on the whole "God" issue.

[EdReform]

Ping

[orionblamblam]

> Proportionally, the hostility isn't even close.

Oh, indeed. The nasty atheist stickers call Christians morons.The nasty Christian stickers call for the expulsion from the US of atheists.

Name calling vs. a call to action. No comparison.

[GLDNGUN]

So the only reason theists act morally in this lifetime is because they are performing a cost-benefit analysis?

Can't speak for other theists, but that's not Christianity. Salvation is through faith, not works. True Christians aren't trying to do good in order to be saved. True Christians are trying to do good because we ARE saved.

[TheOtherOne]

It is so hard to tell the "True Christians" as you call them, from those other Christians.

[Antoninus]

ON the atheist side, you *never* see any that basically boil down to "If you don't believe waht I believe, then you're not a *real* American."

Nonsense. There's a whole branch of atheism that's built upon the idea that the Founding Fathers were all rationalist atheists at heart who built a secular Republic and that those who claim otherwise are "not real Americans." Mike Medved had a woman on his show this past Monday who was basically saying exactly that.

[orionblamblam]

The morality (or lack thereof) of euthanasia is not "generally accepted." This one has people on every side fighting.

[Renderofveils]

I have absolutely no trouble articulating my beliefs. I won't even mention such concepts as "original sin" and the afterlife, much less Jehovah. Why that would start a fight is beyond me.

[Protagoras]

Thanks, two of them applied to the question.

I have never contemplated those two by themselves. Could make for an interesting bible study at some point. I'll have to keep those in mind.

[xJones]

So, nix the C.S. Lewis and go with W.W. Bartley. It is your best shot for the well-educated, intelligent, and rational.

Thank you very much for the reference to ""The Retreat To Commitment". I hadn't heard of William Bartley's book before.

Best regards

[MineralMan]

"If I am wrong, what have I lost? If you are wrong, what have you lost?"

A common question, I suppose. If you are wrong, then you die and return to dust. Since I already accept that as my eventual fate, I lose nothing.

If I am wrong, then I am wrong. I do not believe or disbelieve based on some promise of some reward or punishment after my death. That concept makes no sense to me whatsoever. I behave in my life as though this is the only life I get. That makes it very precious to me.

You have your belief. I have my disbelief. I suspect that we both behave in our lives in almost precisely the same ways.

I cannot believe just because I am fearful. That is not belief; it's something else. I disbelieve because I cannot believe. It is that simple.

[AppyPappy]

I am doing a presentation on the rich young ruler at our next men's prayer breakfast.

[AppyPappy]

The nasty Christian stickers call for the expulsion from the US of atheists.

Name one please

[frog_jerk_2004]

Quite honestly, C.S. Lewis makes me cringe precisely because there are so many transparent flaws in his reasoning.

Examples?

[F16Fighter]

"The nasty Christian stickers call for the expulsion from the US of atheists."

Maybe I'd see what you see after living another 50 years on the planet....

UNLESS of course you live on a different planet to begin with.

[Stone Mountain]

Want to start a fight among atheists? Ask them to state what they believe without using the word "God." They have no trouble telling the world what they don't believe--they have enormous difficulty articulating what they DO believe.

I'll be glad to answer you. What specifically are you asking about my beliefs as an atheist? I'll to answer as best I can. If you are pointing out that the main tenet of atheism is a rejection of the belief of God, then you are correct that it is hard to describe atheism without including God in the explanation. That's not surprising - since a belief in God is clearly the default belief for the majority of people, people who don't share this belief would have to have a term to describe themselves.

I still don't understand how this would "start a fight among atheists." What would the fight be over?

[frog_jerk_2004]

I do not see anything that make a decision made because of a fear of God any different than that same decision made for non-religious reasons.

Abortion is "Legal"

[orionblamblam]

> Many murders result in gain for the murder.

Did I say otherwise? No. Read it again: I said it increases risk.

> Were individual Nazis at great risk for murdering?

Actaully, yes. You bust into someone's home with murder on your mind, and whether you're backed up by a couple of thugs or by a batallion of Waffen SS the chance the home owner's gonna blast you in the face with a shotgun is higher than if you decided to stay in bed that day.

> Wrong thread for that opinion.

The topic had drifted to morality. The evolution of morality is thus relevant.

> Liberals love situational ethics too.

So do conservatives. I don't happen to have a problem with US spies stealing documents from the Iranian nuclear program, for example. Do you?

> Impossible to tell what this comment means.

No, it's not. Read it in context. Then read the Old Testament. Murder and rape were hunky-dory so long as those doing it claimed to have God on their side.

[knuthom]

But what is "good" anyway? And why is it good?

Good questions. If you do not define morality by God's laws, then it is truly up to the individual to define it. Without God, there is no "right" and "wrong", "good" and "evil". Everything would be culturally relative.

[annalex]

Yes, those would do as bumper stickers. Although I still don't see why anyone would gunk up his bumper with statements of what isn't. I wouldn't be tempted to have a bumper sticker that says, for example, "I don't have a goldfish".

So what would an atheist monument look like?

Regarding strawmen, -- surely you have seen blasphemous bumper stickers or heard of Christian monuments removed by court decree. They were not made of straw.