[MineralMan]

Interesting, but self-referential.

Proving the existence of a deity, or the deity of a man/god, based on the scriptures of the religion which believes both to be true is a tautology.

You can find the same proofs in Hinduism, Islam, or any other scripturally-based religion.

Are they all valid? No. Are any of them valid. Well, the one you believe is valid is valid for you.

[DannyTN]

"Interesting, but self-referential. Proving the existence of a deity, or the deity of a man/god, based on the scriptures of the religion which believes both to be true is a tautology. "

Oh I agree with you. That post wasn't intended to convince an athiest. It was really directed at those who already believe the Bible but might be confused on an aspect of Jesus' divinity.

Some of the Old Testament verses are prophetic and in that sense a little stronger evidence, but those are probably only a small subset of what you need to see to realize both that "God is" and that "Jesus is God".

[DannyTN]

"If man has been kicked up out of that which is only impersonal by chance , then those things that make him man-hope of purpose and significance, love, motions of morality and rationality, beauty and verbal communication-are ultimately unfulfillable and thus meaningless."


---Francis Schaeffer in The God Who Is There

[DannyTN]

The following questions are designed to get you to think about what it is you do know and what it is you value.

1. "If all of life is meaningless, and ultimately absurd , why bother to march straight forward, why stand in the queue as though life as a whole makes sense?" ---Francis Schaeffer, The God Who Is There
2. If everyone completely passes out of existence when they die, what ultimate meaning has life? Even if a man's life is important because of his influence on others or by his effect on the course of history, of what ultimate significance is that if there is no immortality and all other lives, events, and even history itself is ultimately meaningless?
3. Suppose the universe had never existed. Apart form God, what ultimate difference would that make?
4. In a universe without God or immortality, how is mankind ultimately different from a swarm of mosquitoes or a barnyard of pigs?
5. What viable basis exists for justice or law if man is nothing but a sophisticated, programmed machine?
6. Why does research, discovery, diplomacy, art, music, sacrifice, compassion, feelings of love, or affectionate and caring relationships mean anything if it all ultimately comes to naught anyway?
7. Without absolute morals, what ultimate difference is there between Saddam Hussein and Billy Graham?
8. If there is no immortality, why shouldn't all things be permitted?(Dostoyevsky)
9. If morality is only a relative social construct, on what basis could or should anyone ever move to interfere with cultures that practice apartheid, female circumcision, cannibalism, or ethnic cleansing?
10. If there is no God, on what basis is there any meaning or hope for fairness, comfort, or better times?
11. Without a personal Creator-God, how are you anything other than the coincidental, purposeless miscarriage of nature, spinning round and round on a lonely planet in the blackness of space for just a little while before you and all memory of your futile, pointless, meaningless life finally blinks out forever in the endless darkness?

From Here