Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Lincoln: Tyrant, Hypocrite or Consumate Statesman? (Dinesh defends our 2d Greatest Prez)
thehistorynet. ^ | Feb 12, 05 | D'Souza

Posted on 02/18/2005 11:27:18 PM PST by churchillbuff

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 301-320321-340341-360 ... 381-391 next last
To: Petronski

I stand corrected Sir....my apologies for the faux paux..........


321 posted on 02/22/2005 3:34:21 PM PST by TexConfederate1861 (Sic Semper Tyrannis!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 319 | View Replies]

To: Ditto
When it was obvious that the secessionists would carry the day in Richmond, nearly all members from the Western counties of Virginia, and a few from the eastern, walked out of the legislature refusing to participate and formed their own rump legislature in Alexandria.

Which is the fatal weakness in your exculpation of Lincoln and the rump faction of Virginians who didn't accept the actions of the other 3/4's of the People of Virginia.

The People of Virginia had the right to reform their government whenever they pleased -- and to secede from the Union, for that matter. Nine guys in a phone booth in Alexandria had no right to call themselves "the People of Virginia", nor any right to attempt to form a government, when the intact government of the People of Virginia was fully functional in Richmond.

States have rights and powers. Dissident politicians don't have the same rights and powers, nor any right to pretend to dispose of same.

322 posted on 02/22/2005 3:37:44 PM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 317 | View Replies]

To: Petronski

It is very important that you realize that I agree that slavery was morally wrong and should have been ended. Where we disagree is to the time table , and the manner in which it was done. I think that 90% of our race problems today are a product of the war, and the harsh treatment the South recieved during Reconstruction. A gradual emancipation would have been better for all concerned, and would have been better than a destructive war.


323 posted on 02/22/2005 3:38:14 PM PST by TexConfederate1861 (Sic Semper Tyrannis!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 320 | View Replies]

To: TexConfederate1861
A gradual emancipation would have been better for all concerned, and would have been better than a destructive war.

And how would you have accomplished that?

324 posted on 02/22/2005 3:39:56 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 323 | View Replies]

To: lentulusgracchus
So blame the people of West Virginia who desired to stay loyal to the Union. Or blame the Richmond secessionists who pulled their Representatives out of Congress, leaving a an entire region that didn't want to commit treason with no Representatives in congress. Blame congress for allowing those people representation. Blame 80 years of Virginia history that discriminated against the western counties and caused major resentment. Blame people who put on their thinking caps and said to the idiot fire-eaters in Richmond "If you feel no loyality to the national government, why should we feel any loyalty to you?

Blame who ever you want, but it was perfectly constitutional. No one said you had to like it.

325 posted on 02/22/2005 3:49:23 PM PST by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 322 | View Replies]

To: Rabble
Yeah, that one line was indeed hogwash.

The historical record fully support the conclusion that slavery was the casus belli. But that doesn't mean that people today who support secession or whom believe that Southern secession was justified share those same beliefs regarding slavery.

326 posted on 02/22/2005 3:58:26 PM PST by XJarhead
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Non-Sequitur; 4ConservativeJustices
The UN isn't in a position to issue orders to US troops.

Neither was Lincoln in a position, without a public law passed by Congress calling forth the Militia, to order State Militia troops to attack other States' Militias, or another country. Or so we thought.

The analogy is valid. Now, how about it?

327 posted on 02/22/2005 4:58:32 PM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 303 | View Replies]

To: XJarhead
But that doesn't mean that people today who support secession or whom believe that Southern secession was justified share those same beliefs regarding slavery.

Time out. I am a man of the right, and I do not agree that the South was justified in secession on any level --- Constitutionally, morally, or ethically. Don't speak for me when you speak of secession as legitimate. It is not and never has been. I see it as a revolution without just cause.

But I also see it as having been inevitable --- destined to happen from the first shots at Lexington & Concord. The best efforts of the Founders, Framers of the Constitution and many brilliant and well intentioned men during the first eight decades of the Republic could only delay the inevitable clash.

And from a spiritual standpoint, I think Lincoln was right when he said that the War and the bloodshed was God's punishment on all Americans, whom he had blessed with so much, for the sin of slavery.

328 posted on 02/22/2005 5:06:28 PM PST by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 326 | View Replies]

To: Non-Sequitur

I have no idea, but something along the lines of slaves born in such year are free as of x year, owners being compensated for loss....


329 posted on 02/22/2005 5:16:07 PM PST by TexConfederate1861 (Sic Semper Tyrannis!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 324 | View Replies]

To: Ditto

Show me in the Bible where it says slavery is a sin.....?
St. Paul apparently didn't agree............


330 posted on 02/22/2005 5:17:26 PM PST by TexConfederate1861 (Sic Semper Tyrannis!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 328 | View Replies]

To: Ditto
And from a spiritual standpoint, I think Lincoln was right when he said that the War and the bloodshed was God's punishment on all Americans, whom he had blessed with so much, for the sin of slavery.

Does that mean you think AIDS is God's punishment to gays and Africans? Was 9/11 God's punishment on America for abortion?

Just wondering.

331 posted on 02/22/2005 6:40:19 PM PST by 4CJ (Laissez les bon FReeps rouler - "Accurately quoting Lincoln is a bannable offense.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 328 | View Replies]

To: Ditto
Time out. I am a man of the right, and I do not agree that the South was justified in secession on any level --- Constitutionally, morally, or ethically. Don't speak for me when you speak of secession as legitimate. It is not and never has been. I see it as a revolution without just cause.

Hold on. I did not say that everyone on the right agreed with secession. I simply said that there are people on the right who now agree with secession who do not do so for racial reasons. Nor did I say that I thought secession was legitimate. As a matter of face, I don't.

My view on secession is that the South's desire to continue slavery destroyed whatever right it otherwise might have had to secede, and that Lincoln was right to do what he did.

My only point is that people who disagree with my view on secession cannot be presumed to be racists, which is what D'Souza implied with that statement.

Peace, dude. I'm on your side on this.

332 posted on 02/22/2005 7:22:36 PM PST by XJarhead
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 328 | View Replies]

To: XJarhead
My view on secession is that the South's desire to continue slavery destroyed whatever right it otherwise might have had to secede, and that Lincoln was right to do what he did.

Strangest post of the day.

333 posted on 02/22/2005 7:37:31 PM PST by rustbucket
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 332 | View Replies]

To: Ditto
I think Lincoln was right when he said that the War and the bloodshed was God's punishment on all Americans

So the end justifies the means.

334 posted on 02/22/2005 7:42:27 PM PST by stainlessbanner (Gather round y'all)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 328 | View Replies]

To: yall
Which yankee bootlicker added all the keywords?

It's gonna take more than keywords to win the debate.

335 posted on 02/22/2005 7:48:24 PM PST by stainlessbanner (Gather round y'all)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 334 | View Replies]

To: stainlessbanner
Which yankee bootlicker added all the keywords?

Probably D'Souza himself. When you don't have a leg to stand on, start throwing out off subject statements. What yanks refuse to understand is the factual evidence of his actions and words. You can cut and paste parts of his speeches to defend the belief that lincoln actually cared, but when put into context with the entire speech or separate speeches, not to mention his actions and the war carried out on private citizens with his consent, it's clear to most that he never did care about what we are told.

336 posted on 02/22/2005 8:42:42 PM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 335 | View Replies]

To: TexConfederate1861
I have no idea, but something along the lines of slaves born in such year are free as of x year, owners being compensated for loss....

And what if the owners didn't want to be compensated for their slaves, but wanted to keep them instead? A gradual emancipation plan would need the support of the slave owners, billions of dollars to fund it, and a solution for what to do with all those free blacks.

337 posted on 02/23/2005 4:00:11 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 329 | View Replies]

To: stainlessbanner

You would have to ask God about that.


338 posted on 02/23/2005 4:12:42 AM PST by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 334 | View Replies]

To: TexConfederate1861
Show me in the Bible where it says slavery is a sin.....? St. Paul apparently didn't agree............

So slavery does not present a Religous problem for you?

339 posted on 02/23/2005 4:15:36 AM PST by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 330 | View Replies]

To: Ditto

It presents a MORAL problem. Morally, by our society today, slavery is wrong. The Bible doesn't condemn it, and even gives instructions on how to treat slaves.


340 posted on 02/23/2005 4:18:08 AM PST by TexConfederate1861 (Sic Semper Tyrannis!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 339 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 301-320321-340341-360 ... 381-391 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson