Posted on 03/20/2005 6:03:40 PM PST by FoxPro
I agree with that 100% -- Party of Death after what I heard tonight! We need to throw Shays and that dingbat from Tampa to the RATs as well! She is going to run for FL Senate and needs taken out in the primary IMHO.
How so? What's the reason for the supermajority requirement?
Caller "Laverne" from Calif. makes a GREAT POINT.
ALL these laws are about one person.
Brown vs. Board of Education was about one person!
EXCELLENT.
Yeah, and maybe we'll get lucky and she'll be beheaded too! Oh yeah! /Sarcasm
160 - 48
Just heard from MSNBC that after the vote Terri will be taken from the death-house ("hospise") and to a hospital. Maybe she will even get some rehabilitation now.
Number, man! I need NUMBERS! (Can't see them!)
I don't know, but there are two of them now. Probably Shays and some hyphenated from Florida.
Not surprisingly, there are 46 nays from the Demoncrats. As of 9:30 PPST, with 4:28 remaining, it's 160 YEA to 48 NAY (46 from Democrats).
I suspect there will be a lot of live threads going tomorrow. Talk radio has its plate set. Can't WAIT for Rush in the morning.
"We don't mind helping Mexicans, but let it happen while they are in Mexico, please."
A PROFOUNDLY humanitarian, American and sane approach to THAT can of worms....BTTT
"You seem to forget your history Dear Lady. The whole reason we fought our Revolution was to throw OUT this sort of Government by our "betters"."
The question as to separation of powers, and the limitations upon the legislature were defined, as I'm sure you know, in Marbury vs. Madison (1803):
The question, whether an act, repugnant to the constitution, can become the law of the land, is a question deeply interesting to the United States; but, happily, not of an intricacy proportioned to its interest. It seems only necessary to recognize certain principles, supposed to have been long and well established, to decide it.
That the people have an original right to establish, for their future government, such principles as, in their opinion, shall most conduce to their own happiness, is the basis, on which the whole American fabric has been erected. The exercise of this original right is a very great exertion; nor can it, nor ought it to be frequently repeated. The principles, therefore, so established, are deemed fundamental. And as the authority, from which they proceed, is supreme, and can seldom act, they are designed to be permanent.
This original and supreme will organizes the government, and assigns, to different departments, their respective powers. It may either stop here; or establish certain limits not to be transcended by those departments.
The government of the United States is of the latter description. The powers of the legislature are defined, and limited; and that those limits may not be mistaken, or forgotten, the constitution is written. To what purpose are powers limited, and to what purpose is that limitation committed to writing, if these limits may, at any time, be passed by those intended to be restrained? The distinction, between a government with limited and unlimited powers, is abolished, if those limits do not confine the persons on whom they are imposed, and if acts prohibited and acts allowed, are of equal obligation. It is a proposition too plain to be contested, that the constitution controls any legislative act repugnant to it; or, that the legislature may alter the constitution by an ordinary act.
Between these alternatives there is no middle ground. The constitution is either a superior, paramount law, unchangeable by ordinary means, or it is on a level with ordinary legislative acts, and like other acts, is alterable when the legislature shall please to alter it.
If the former part of the alternative be true, then a legislative act contrary to the constitution is not law: if the latter part be true, then written constitutions are absurd attempts, on the part of the people, to limit a power, in its own nature illimitable.
Certainly all those who have framed written constitutions contemplate them as forming the fundamental and paramount law of the nation, and consequently the theory of every such government must be, that an act of the legislature, repugnant to the constitution, is void.
If an act of the legislature, repugnant to the constitution, is void, does it, notwithstanding its invalidity, bind the courts, and oblige them to give it effect? Or, in other words, though it be not law, does it constitute a rule as operative as if it was a law? This would be to overthrow in fact what was established in theory; and would seem, at first view, an absurdity too gross to be insisted on. It shall, however, receive a more attentive consideration.
It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is. Those who apply the rule to particular cases, must of necessity expound and interpret that rule. If two laws conflict with each other, the courts must decide on the operation of each.
So if a law be in opposition to the constitution; if both the law and the constitution apply to a particular case, so that the court must either decide that case conformably to the law, disregarding the constitution; or conformably to the constitution, disregarding the law; the court must determine which of these conflicting rules governs the case. This is of the very essence of judicial duty.
If then the courts are to regard the constitution; and the constitution is superior to any ordinary act of the legislature; the constitution, and not such ordinary act, must govern the case to which they both apply.
Those then who controvert the principle that the constitution is to be considered, in court, as a paramount law, are reduced to the necessity of maintaining that courts must close their eyes on the constitution, and see only the law.
This doctrine would subvert the very foundation of all written constitutions. It would declare that an act, which, according to the principles and theory of our government, is entirely void; is yet, in practice, completely obligatory. It would declare, that if the legislature shall do what is expressly forbidden, such act, notwithstanding the express prohibition, is in reality effectual. It would be giving to the legislature a practical and real omnipotence, with the same breath which professes to restrict their powers within narrow limits. It is prescribing limits, and declaring that those limits may be passed at pleasure.
That it thus reduces to nothing what we have deemed the greatest improvement on political institutions -- a written constitution -- would of itself be sufficient, in America, where written constitutions have been viewed with so much reverence, for rejecting the construction. But the peculiar expressions of the constitution of the United States furnish additional arguments in favor of its rejection.
The judicial power of the United States is extended to all cases arising under the constitution. Could it be the intention of those who gave this power, to say that, in using it, the constitution should not be looked into? That a case arising under the constitution should be decided without examining the instrument under which it arises? This is too extravagant to be maintained.
In some cases then, the constitution must be looked into by the judges. And if they can open it at all, what part of it are they forbidden to read, or to obey? There are many other parts of the constitution which serve to illustrate this subject. It is declared that "no tax or duty shall be laid on articles exported from any state." Suppose a duty on the export of cotton, of tobacco, or of flour; and a suit instituted to recover it. Ought judgment to be rendered in such a case? ought the judges to close their eyes on the constitution, and only see the law. The constitution declares that "no bill of attainder or ex post facto law shall be passed."
If, however, such a bill should be passed and a person should be prosecuted under it; must the court condemn to death those victims whom the constitution endeavors to preserve?
Why otherwise does it direct the judges to take an oath to support it? This oath certainly applies, in an especial manner, to their conduct in their official character. How immoral to impose it on them, if they were to be used as the instruments, and the knowing instruments, for violating what they swear to support!
The oath of office, too, imposed by the legislature, is completely demonstrative of the legislative opinion on the subject. It is in these words, "I do solemnly swear that I will administer justice without respect to persons, and do equal right to the poor and to the rich; and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge all the duties incumbent on me as according to the best of my abilities and understanding, agreeably to the constitution, and laws of the United States."
Why does a judge swear to discharge his duties agreeably to the constitution of the United States, if that constitution forms no rule for his government? if it is closed upon him, and cannot be inspected by him?
If such be the real state of things, this is worse than solemn mockery. To prescribe, or to take this oath, becomes equally a crime.
Thus, the particular phraseology of the constitution of the United States confirms and strengthens the principle, supposed to be essential to all written constitutions, that a law repugnant to the constitution is void; and that courts, as well as other departments, are bound by that instrument.
It must be 2/3ds of ALL those voting. If 300 vote, it must be 200....etc.
why does it need to be 2/3s? Why not a simple majority like every other bill?
Deo I think we may make it.
I thought I saw more than that on C-SPAN, but I am viewing over modem... It looks like it will pass by 2/3 with 218...
Sinkspur is quite rightly concerned about federalism, which is an essential element of our republic. The problem is he doesn't seem to grasp that there are limits to federalism. But I can't say I can blame him too much. The Federal government has usurped a lot much power that rightly belongs to the states. For someone who is concerned about this usurpation, it is easy to overreach and fail to recognize a legitimate exercise of Federal power.
Let's give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Being nasty to him isn't going to help.
Glad they have the good sense to observe a simple urbanity rule.
I'm watching on MSNBC.
166 Terri
48 Michael
166 yay 48 nay
I'd guess simple....the constitution specifies only a few votes to be decided by 2/3.
Oh, ok....well, we did it! Right???
170 to 48; 0 votes to go!!!... and well more than the 2/3rds needed!!!
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