Schiavo's life was tragically short, but her legacy is long (USA Today editorial)

USA Today via Yahoo News ^ | 4/1/05

[Wolfstar]

USA Today is Title/Link Only

[Peach]

We're going on vacation tomorrow for a week, but when I get back, I'm going to look for you. LOL

We need to discuss these issues somewhere on FR without all the vitriol and emotional overload.

I've been accused of being obsessed with this matter. But we could see two weeks ago the train wreck that was coming to our party. There are larger issues involved than what happened to Terri Schiavo and those issues need to be discussed calmly without MORE rushed legislation and certainly we have GOT to ensure that our legislators don't listen to DeLay.

I think he even said it wouldn't have mattered if she had a written directive, but I didn't catch every word.

Anyway, keep plugging away!

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

check the last sentence here:

SEC. 2. PROCEDURE.


Any parent of Theresa Marie Schiavo shall have standing to bring a suit under this Act. The suit may be brought against any other person who was a party to State court proceedings relating to the withholding or withdrawal of food, fluids, or medical treatment necessary to sustain the life of Theresa Marie Schiavo, or who may act pursuant to a State court order authorizing or directing the withholding or withdrawal of food, fluids, or medical treatment necessary to sustain her life. In such a suit, the District Court shall determine de novo any claim of a violation of any right of Theresa Marie Schiavo within the scope of this Act, notwithstanding any prior State court determination and regardless of whether such a claim has previously been raised, considered, or decided in State court proceedings. The District Court shall entertain and determine the suit without any delay or abstention in favor of State court proceedings, and regardless of whether remedies available in the State courts have been exhausted.

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/schiavo/bill31905.html

[Diogenesis]

So if I ignored the JUDICIAL ATROCITY of EXECUTING INNOCENTS by STARVATION

perhaps you think THAT would "strenghten you(me) credibility"?

Is your idea of 'credibility' proportional lying prostrate before evil which is on the roll?

[Wolfstar]

I hate the snooty tone.

The "snooty" tone?! The "snooty" tone of what? The editorial. All it's trying to do is say that the Schiavo case will have a lasting impact due to news laws that are likely to be proposed in federal and state legislatures.

I fully realize that the intelligence of a population can be graphed on a bell curve, and that the top of the bell represents average intelligence. However, if the level of discourse we've all witnessed on FR these past few weeks regarding Schiavo is any indication, I think the intelligence of most FR denizens must surely fall to the lower side of the bell curve.

[ContraryMary]

The national debate will be Terri's legacy. She has forced us as a society to consider questions on the meaning of life and medical ethics that we have never faced before. She will be remembered for a long time.

[68 grunt]

Credibility? The ability to post factually and without hyperbole. I wonder if you've even laid one non-hyperbolic post down.

[Diogenesis]

Have a good vacation, Peach.

[Wolfstar]

Hopefully by the time hearings are held, cooler heads will prevail in Congress and certainly on FR where maybe we can have actual discussions again.

I don't hold out too much hope for this, unfortunately. In addition, this issue has made its share of "strange bedfellows" across party lines. I worry that cooler heads in Congress will be overwhelmed.

[Wolfstar]

I think your's is a valid position, and one that I support. In fact, I've mentioned on other threads that I wouldn't be opposed to a law that requires all Americans to make a living will and to file it in the public records, much the same way we are required to obtain and file birth, marriage and death certificates.

[malakhi]

the legislation was for de novo review of the merits/facts of the case.

The legislation did not mandate temporary injunctive relief pending de novo review. So existing law governing temporary injunctive relief applied. Whittemore ruled that the Schindler's appeal failed to meet the legal standard for a temporary restraining order. The three judge panel from the 11th Circuit found that he had not abused his discretion. The full 11th Circuit agreed, and the Supreme Court declined to hear a motion to appeal.

[Wolfstar]

I would also go along with such laws being left to the states. I worry about what Congress might pass, especially in the current overheated climate on these issues.

[Diogenesis]

It is not hyperbole to say, "This judicial murder by starvation is equivalent to
an indictment at Nuremberg Trials. To wit,

" 9. Between September 1939 and April 1945 the defendants Karl Brandt, Blome, Brack, and Hoven unlawfully, willfully, and knowingly committed war crimes, as defined by Article II of Control Council Law No. 10, in that they were principals in, accessories to, ordered, abetted, took a consenting part in, and were connected with plans and enterprises involving the execution of the so-called "euthanasia" program of the German Reich in the course of which the defendants herein murdered hundreds of thousands of human beings, including nationals of German-occupied countries. This program involved the systematic and secret execution of the aged, insane, incurably ill, of deformed children, and other persons, by gas, lethal injections, and diverse other means in nursing homes, hospitals, and asylums. Such persons were regarded as "useless eaters" and a burden to the German war machine. The relatives of these victims were informed that they died from natural causes, such as heart failure. German doctors involved in the "euthanasia" program were also sent to Eastern occupied countries to assist in the mass extermination of Jews."

[ Count 2, section 9, of the indictment in "the Doctor's Trial" at the Nuremberg war crimes trial;
United States Holocaust Memorial Museum ]

Now let's go to the Congress' Order to the Courts. To wit,

What part of 'SHALL' and Article III do you not understand?

Now there is only one conclusion. To wit,

[Peach]

Thank you. And I have a favor to ask you, Diogenesis.

I have enjoyed your graphics since 9/11. And I understand how emotional this issue is.

It's important that we discuss this without name calling and labeling people.

I'm begging you, let's talk about how we feel. Let's talk with each other, not at each other.

There were a number of article in my local newspaper about families that were faced with the exact same circumstances as Terri's and they made the decision to disconnect the feeding tube.

All this talk of murderers and Nazis has made them feel horrible. This has happened all across the nation.

I'd love to see a survey to see if people are against feeding tube removal in all instances. Or just for PVS cases. Or just in this case.

These are the issues that NEED to be discussed. We have, as a family, removed the feeding tube from someone, on the advice of doctors, without a living will. My stepdad took his beautiful and only daughter off a ventilator, on the advice of doctors, and without a living will. She could have lived on for years with the ventilator. As lots of people can live for years with a feeding tube.

We NEED to talk about these things. And it's become nearly impossible on Free Republic these days. You are too smart to be part of that group that doesn't let us talk openly and honestly without, through pictures, condemning us. If you will just consider what I've had to say, I will be grateful.

[Wolfstar]

We need to discuss these issues somewhere on FR without all the vitriol and emotional overload.

The only way to do that would be via email, or on a private thread or something like that.

[jagfar]

Chill

[Wolfstar]

And your point is...?

[68 grunt]

When you say 'murder' you employ hyperbole. Anyway, she didn't starve nor die of thirst, she was dehydrated. Thirst, hunger,both imply feelings, which she had not.

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

see #22

[Peach]

I am very worried as well. Very.

Tom DeLay needs to back off. What has happened to the party that used to believe in self reliance and self determination and smaller government and the goverment that governs less, governs best.

It's like our platform has completely over-reached and in doing so on this one issue (life), has turned every other ideal we held upside down.

[Long Cut]

I wouldn't worry too much, Wolf. After the fiasco this became politically for the GOP, I don't think any congresscritters will want to touch this with a 100-foot pole. Sure, some bills might be introduced, but they'll go nowhere.

They have no wish to repeat their mistakes, especially after the thanks they got this time.