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SPECIAL: Terri Schiavo, Martyr
Catholic Online ^ | 3/31/2005 - 5:55 PM PST | Deacon Keith Fournier

Posted on 04/01/2005 9:47:04 PM PST by Bayou City

The news out of Pinellas Park, Florida breaks the hearts of all decent people. It should shake us to the core. Terri Schiavo is dead, intentionally deprived of food and water, with the force of the raw power of government holding the hands of the executioners. She was killed deliberately, by starvation and dehydration. No Court, Legislative body or Chief Executive had the courage to stop this killing. She was deprived of her substantive due process rights by every branch of government.

Terri was not dying. She was not receiving any “extraordinary medical treatment.” She was being fed and given water, as many disabled people are at this very moment, with assistance. She had trouble swallowing because she was disabled by damage to her brain. She would have lived for many, many years, bringing great joy to her family and changing the world. But now she is dead; killed by the complete abject failure of a system that has lost its soul.

The Greek word for “witness” is “martyrion”. In our use of the word over all these centuries of Christian history, we have emphasized those who shed their blood for the faith. However, there is also a tradition of “white martyrs”, those who live sacrificial lives that change the world. That is what Terri did. None of us will forget her smile. We all adopted her beautiful family. We now mourn her loss and share, at least a little, in their deep pain. We must also become outraged at the sheer evil of this killing and we must act.

Terri Schiavo is a martyr. She had her life taken away by the enforcers of a New Rome. Remember, the old Rome also had an elaborate system of courts and a highly developed legislative system. It prided itself on its culture, its arts and its claims to “civilization.” Yet, it legally sanctioned horrors such as the practice of exposure, where children, the disabled and other “unwanted” persons were left on rocks to die by exposure to the elements or to be killed by hostile passers by. We now do the same.

The killing of Terri Schindler must mark a turning point in American history. Terri was killed while “the law” was unwilling to intervene. Her death stripped away the veneer of civility painted on the face of the current culture of death. It was a diabolical event, plain and simple. The rejection of the inherent value of every human life as a foundation of our whole understanding of ordered liberty is a clear and present danger. We face a serious risk to both life and liberty when reference to the truth is removed as the measuring stick for our behavior. Authentic freedom has been replaced by a counterfeit. The very foundation of decency is shaken.

To honor Terri, we should dedicate ourselves to the long term work of building a new society, a culture of life and civilization of love, where the dignity of every human life will be the polestar of all public policy; marriage and family will be protected as the first mediating institution and defended against those who aim to replace and eradicate them; authentic freedom will be exercised in reference to truth and within a moral constitution, and our obligations in solidarity to one another, and most especially those who have no voice, will be upheld by elected and unelected public servants.

With all the talk of the “religious influence” in America, the martyrdom of Terri Schiavo reveals the lack of a national soul. Terri was killed in a manner reminiscent of past evil regimes. I am reminded of the old adage attributed to the English Philosopher Alisdair Macintyre who, commenting on the decay in English society, once said “The Creed of the English is that there is no God but it is proper to pray to him once in a while.” Without reference to the Source of unalienable rights, the One who placed the hunger for true justice within every human heart, we have become unmoored as a Nation.

Terrible injustices sometimes mark turning points in the political history of Nations. I pray that Terri’s death becomes such an event; an impetus for a new coalition for life, family, freedom and solidarity. If it does, Terri’s martyrdom will not have been in vain.

Deacon Keith Fournier is a member of the Catholic Clergy and a human rights lawyer


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: martyr; terrischiavo
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The killing of Terri Schindler must mark a turning point in American history. Terri was killed while “the law” was unwilling to intervene. Her death stripped away the veneer of civility painted on the face of the current culture of death. It was a diabolical event, plain and simple. The rejection of the inherent value of every human life as a foundation of our whole understanding of ordered liberty is a clear and present danger. We face a serious risk to both life and liberty when reference to the truth is removed as the measuring stick for our behavior. Authentic freedom has been replaced by a counterfeit. The very foundation of decency is shaken.

Powerful paragraph...

1 posted on 04/01/2005 9:47:04 PM PST by Bayou City
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To: MeekOneGOP

FYI...


2 posted on 04/01/2005 9:49:50 PM PST by Bayou City
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To: Bayou City

I do hope the next Pope will consider making her Blessed. She wouldn't reach Sainthood, but she has inspired very much faith in the world and is worthy of recognition, in my view.


3 posted on 04/01/2005 9:52:06 PM PST by SteveMcKing
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To: SteveMcKing
I do hope the next Pope will consider making her Blessed. She wouldn't reach Sainthood...

Totally agree...

4 posted on 04/01/2005 10:01:12 PM PST by Bayou City
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To: SteveMcKing

I agree


5 posted on 04/01/2005 10:01:42 PM PST by Orlando (We want a U.S. Congressional Investigations and hearings on the murder of Theresa 'Terri')
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To: Orlando

Terri Schiavo Before dehydration

God Bless you Terri in your hour of death

Let everyone who said your beautiful smile was fake be haunted by it for the rest of their days.

6 posted on 04/01/2005 10:07:14 PM PST by mjtobias (Our love for Terri was immense; her parents' love was infinite; God's love is everlasting.)
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To: SteveMcKing

"I do hope the next Pope will consider making her Blessed."

I agree and I hope he's reading our threads.


7 posted on 04/01/2005 10:09:21 PM PST by mjtobias (Our love for Terri was immense; her parents' love was infinite; God's love is everlasting.)
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To: SteveMcKing

She could easily be canonized a saint, because her murder was in part motivated by hatred of the Faith.


8 posted on 04/01/2005 10:15:30 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Bayou City
In eight short paragraphs he makes more sense than all the media combined.
9 posted on 04/01/2005 10:18:48 PM PST by TYVets (God so loved the world he didn't send a committee)
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To: Ohioan from Florida

Here is a ping for you...


10 posted on 04/01/2005 10:21:41 PM PST by Bayou City
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To: Arthur McGowan
She could easily be canonized a saint,

I think you need to have performed 5 miracles.

11 posted on 04/01/2005 10:32:33 PM PST by Ceebass
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To: Bayou City; 4Godsoloved..Hegave; 8mmMauser; a5478; atruelady; Brad's Gramma; Cayenne; ...

Terri ping! If anyone would like to be added to or removed from my Terri ping list, please let me know by FReepmail!


12 posted on 04/01/2005 10:35:41 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: SteveMcKing

She could become a full saint. All she needs is two miracles attributed to her. They don't have to happen while she is alive. Perhaps we are witnesing one right now, in that the world has taken notice of the evil of euthanasia.


13 posted on 04/01/2005 10:39:09 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: Ceebass

2 miracles.


14 posted on 04/01/2005 10:39:48 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: Bayou City
No Court, Legislative body or Chief Executive had the courage to stop this killing. She was deprived of her substantive due process rights by every branch of government.

Any or all of them could have legitimately saved her. This is what devastates me.

15 posted on 04/01/2005 10:54:50 PM PST by Lauren BaRecall (Jeb Bush, 3/25/05: "Ooooooh, everybody just stop *expecting* anything from me. Ok?")
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To: Ohioan from Florida
Isn't there also something about lack of corruption of the body, (as in the grave--), Michael is making sure she won't pass that test.
16 posted on 04/01/2005 10:55:59 PM PST by Segovia (Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.)
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To: Bayou City

The Greek word for “witness” is “martyrion”. In our use of the word over all these centuries of Christian history, we have emphasized those who shed their blood for the faith. However, there is also a tradition of “white martyrs”, those who live sacrificial lives that change the world. That is what Terri did...

While I admire the family of Terri and their attempts to retain their beloved daughter and sister, I regretfully cannot agree to the above statement in the article. Please correct me if I am wrong, but Terri was bulimic and had heart failure as a result of insufficient potassium levels. I find it difficult to categorize these facts as “shedding their blood for the faith” or “living a sacrificial life that changed the world”. How can one possibly compare that to someone, like the apostle Paul, who lived a sacrificial live that changed the world? Sorry folks, but that’s just not reality. Unfortunately, had she not suffered the severe brain damage she did she'd be as well know as you or me walking down a crowded NY street going home from work. Further, and I'm only speculating here, but its unlikely that prior to her heart failure and ensuing physical state, that Terri was living the definition listed above. Of course I don’t know her and can’t say with any certainty, but how many martyrs does one really know? Don't get me wrong, this entire episode was sad and truly unfortunate, but let's try and keep the big picture in mind and always remember that God works in mysterious ways...In the grand scheme of it all Terri, in this case, was simply the instrument chosen by our Maker to redirect us all back to Him.


17 posted on 04/01/2005 10:59:21 PM PST by phatus maximus (Gather facts, listen carefully, ask lots of questions, make informed decisions...)
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To: Lauren BaRecall

Latest Zogby poll:

A whopping 79 percent said the patient should not have food and water taken away while just 9 percent said yes.

18 posted on 04/01/2005 11:03:20 PM PST by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: PhilDragoo

That's what it was, judicial homicide. The "blood on their hands" detail is very effective.


19 posted on 04/01/2005 11:14:00 PM PST by Lauren BaRecall (Jeb Bush, 3/25/05: "Ooooooh, everybody just stop *expecting* anything from me. Ok?")
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To: phatus maximus
Please correct me if I am wrong, but Terri was bulimic and had heart failure as a result of insufficient potassium levels.

This is not accurate - just another of the many MSM perpetuated inaccuracies that were originally provided by Felos and Michael Schiavo. I'm sorry, but I'm just too exhausted to post a link for you. However, there are many articles in the Empire Journal.com that you could look up.

20 posted on 04/01/2005 11:20:35 PM PST by Lauren BaRecall (Jeb Bush, 3/25/05: "Ooooooh, everybody just stop *expecting* anything from me. Ok?")
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To: Ceebass

Rules were made to be set aside. Actually, it's usually one for Beatification, two for Canonization.


21 posted on 04/01/2005 11:40:34 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: Segovia

That's certainly A miracle, but it is in no way expected or required as a condition of canonization.


23 posted on 04/01/2005 11:41:56 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Lauren BaRecall

Fair enough...I guess regardless of how she got to the state she was in my point still holds in the sense she was not an example of the definitions described in the article...


24 posted on 04/01/2005 11:47:24 PM PST by phatus maximus (Gather facts, listen carefully, ask lots of questions, make informed decisions...)
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To: phatus maximus

Unless someone asks for her intercession, and God grants 2 miracles....

My point is that who knows? She could be a second Little Flower, spending her heaven on earth. God will show us, sooner or later, what He intends. We don't know the operations of God in her soul, since 1990. She may have been a Victim Soul for the Church, for all we know.

One thing is for sure, however: God would have to unlock that mystery Himself.


25 posted on 04/01/2005 11:59:50 PM PST by Lauren BaRecall (Jeb Bush, 3/25/05: "Ooooooh, everybody just stop *expecting* anything from me. Ok?")
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To: Bayou City

I have questions as to whether a person who is unable to take nourishment/water unaided and by their own hand without a stomach tube, or a person who is unable to breath unaided without a ventilator is not realistically being sustained by extraordinary means. The two both seem to logically qualify as extraordinary means in my mind.


26 posted on 04/02/2005 12:45:35 AM PST by marsh2
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To: Ceebass

I think you need to have performed 5 miracles.

=======

Oak Hay... so precisely what constitutes a miracle ???


27 posted on 04/02/2005 2:23:17 AM PST by GeekDejure ( LOL = Liberals Obey Lucifer !!!)
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To: marsh2

We've now graduated from just ventilators to both ventilators and feeding tubes, and I worry what's next. Kidney dialysis machines? I.V.s? Antibiotics?

Terri was not terminally ill. She could've lived another 40 years.

Now that I think of it, performing open heart surgery is pretty extraordinary. I grew up with a girl who had open heart surgery when she was 10. She's still alive. Do you think she should've been allowed to die 25 years ago, because she was kept alive via extraordinary means? Or do you just think that some people are worth all the trouble and other people aren't?

If so, please explain how this sliding scale should work. Who deserves to live and who doesn't? Should we only kill mentally disabled people? Or should we kill people with other disabilities too such as blind folks? If it's OK to kill blind people, should we also kill nearsighted folks? Where do you draw the line?


28 posted on 04/02/2005 2:32:43 AM PST by schmelvin
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To: Lauren BaRecall

To: phatus maximus
> Please correct me if I am wrong, but Terri was bulimic and
> had heart failure as a result of insufficient potassium
> levels.

> This is not accurate... there are many articles in the
> Empire Journal.com that you could look up.

Right, essentially a complete fabrication to hide Michael's attempted murder. The insurance company caved for no apparent good reason, even though the doc was fully cleared, watch for a possible countersuit for fraud in the future.

One quick refutation -- enyzme levels did not show a myocardial infarction. Another -- bone scan 51 weeks later (got out in 2002) showed multiple fractures, there was some evidence of strangulation. Michael came up with three stories and all sorts of anomalies in the claim about what happenned that night. Emergency folks came, and found Bob, her brother trying to help, and Michael doing nothing.

btw, one of the lady docs on the media also stated bluntly that the supposed scenario would not happen to a 26-year old gal like Terri, I jotted down the name. When that happens the media whores quickly jump to another topic.

Phatus could also look up the Pat Anderson interview with Sean Hannity on Fox about 2-3 days ago, might find the audio on the web, friends played it today on Paltalk, have it in mp3. Pat lays out lots of those details, although I understand that the admission records were sealed by Greer.

Terri was a healthy gal, weighed about 115-120, a good weight that a lot of healthy gals in their 20's and 30's would try to be.


29 posted on 04/02/2005 3:10:06 AM PST by praxi (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/)
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To: marsh2

Bayou
> ..a person who is unable to take nourishment/water unaided
> and by their own hand without a stomach tube, or a person
> who is unable to breath unaided without a ventilator
> ..qualify as extraordinary means in my mind.

So what .. antiobiotics are extraordinary, a healing juice diet is extraordinary.

The debate is first about consciousness .. Terri passed that test with flying colors to all but the merchants of death.

If no apparent consciousness, how about hope of revival.
Not relevant in Terri's case since she was very vibrant and alive, responsive and loving.

If no consciousness,(brain dead and/or coma situations.. true "PVS" is very rare and is largely a diagnosis invented to kill) minimal hope of any revival, lots of life support (terminal is another issue, albeit squirrelly), and nobody and no way to step in the breach, nothing to do, you then have the classic type of "pull the plug" case. A friend's dad is in that situation today and she and sisters gave ok via power of attorney.

REHAB
Could Terri have improved a lot more.. most assuredly, by all sorts of nurse and doctor testimony, and by history and common sense. Everybody improves if you simply take them outside in fresh air and sunlight, much less yet structured range of motion and 100 other things.

However, Joni Erickson Tada makes a good point that this should not be the debate. Even if Terri could not get "better" to some person's standard, that is only a question of what protocol of rehab, and nothing to do with a supposed "debate" about whether she should be tortured by dehydration (ask Kate Adamson) and murdered.

As for feeding tube. They FORCED her on the tube by limiting all nurse activity and therapy, and stopping the oral feeding, which had been rather common.

Think about the techniques of Cranford, Felos, Greer.
a) force tube feeding in, even if unnecessary or marginal
b) force tube out, enforced by police power
c) forbid oral sustenance, even if available
(media whores -- "she might choke")
d) enforce (c) with full police power of the state.

This is the face of nazi dehydration torture murder come to the USA.


30 posted on 04/02/2005 3:31:51 AM PST by praxi (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/)
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To: Arthur McGowan
She could easily be canonized a saint, because her murder was in part motivated by hatred of the Faith.

VERY TRUE.

Besides, if there is miracles proven to have happened as a result of people praying to Terri, she could some day be canonized, all right.
31 posted on 04/02/2005 3:38:22 AM PST by JoAnka ((= Joanna Najfeld) PROUD TO BE POLISH)
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Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

To: Bayou City
Except that George Greer was the law. It was his direct governmental intervention that murdered Terri. It was the police he summoned who prevented anyone from even relieving Terri's suffering with a chip of ice for her parched lips.

This was a killing by the law. The sickening fact is, Florida law sanctions murder.

33 posted on 04/02/2005 4:58:13 AM PST by T'wit (Liberalism reduces America from a Shining City on a Hill to a fetid slum in a fever swamp)
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To: phatus maximus
Terri never had bulimia. Even her husband said so. She was pudgy as a child, but that was years before. At the time of her still unexplained collapse, she was a healthy young 26-year-old woman of normal weight. Look at her photos.

She shed blood all right. Broken ribs, two broken ankles, two broken knees, her right femur -- strongest bone in the body -- snapped in the middle, broken back and a severe head injury. These injuries are not explained either. This information is the result of a radiological bone scan one year after her "collapse."

The report said in dry medical language, "This patient has a history of trauma." A Freeper physician who looked at the report put it in stronger language. If she wasn't in a severe auto wreck (and she wasn't), "somebody beat the crap out of her."

Michael Schiavo and his lawyers concealed the bone scan report. The family didn't find out about it until 12 years later. If the doctors Michael had sued for malpractice had known about it, they would have had a perfect defense.

Healthy young women simply do not collapse of potassium imbalance in the middle of the night. The leading cause of death or serious injury is -- domestic violence.

34 posted on 04/02/2005 5:29:54 AM PST by T'wit (Liberalism reduces America from a Shining City on a Hill to a fetid slum in a fever swamp)
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To: Bayou City

I wish the author would have explained why it is a matter for the courts in the first place. Aside from determining who is the guardian, the courts should have stayed out of the issue completely.

Court ordered murder of a citizen who committed no crime just strikes me as a bad idea.


35 posted on 04/02/2005 5:33:44 AM PST by kingu (What is union scale wage for staging a protest anyway?)
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To: phatus maximus

Shall I say welcome to Free Republic or zot?


36 posted on 04/02/2005 5:49:21 AM PST by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: phatus maximus

OK. Here we go again. It appears that Michael Shiavo (and perhaps his supporters) are the only ones who have accused Terri of being "bulimic". WHO ARE HER ACCUSERS and WHO IS THE "DOCTOR" who labeled her "bulimic" PRIOR to her death and Michael's decision to starve and dehydrate her?

If Michael was so solicitous of her health, then WHY did he not get her medical and psychiatric help for the alleged "bulimia" BEFORE she allegedly collapsed?


37 posted on 04/02/2005 6:08:03 AM PST by Twinkie (For it is written, even the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.)
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To: Twinkie

More importantly, who are the doctors who diagnosed Terri "bulimic" BEFORE SHE ALLEGEDLY COLLAPSED? So far, this "diagnosis" has sounded to me like it was coming from Mikey diagnosing Terri to a few doctors AFTER THE FACT?

Is this a correct assumption?


38 posted on 04/02/2005 6:12:07 AM PST by Twinkie (For it is written, even the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.)
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To: Bayou City

Everyday, as I read more and more - I have come to feel that Terri is at least finally at peace. I have also come to believe - that the moment God saw what Michael was doing, HE decided to make this one life have an impact on the rest of the lives to come.God makes all bad things good - in His way.

Terri will forever stand in my heart and mind as the Ultimate Victim - both of physical abuse and abuse by the system that should have protected her. God is turning her tragedy into something that will change the course this world is on.

I know her death was not in vain, as God, and the ones continuing to write and post - are keeping her alive for all to know. HE will have the Ultimate vengeance - and it is up to us to make sure the news continues to travel - for as long as we can still type, eat, and live. JK


39 posted on 04/02/2005 6:14:09 AM PST by Just Kimberly (Always proud, Always American, Always Trust in God...HOOAH!!( and Terri - we will never forget.))
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To: Segovia

Are you speaking of the autopsy? My belief - in times like these - I do not think that is going to be an issue. God is FULLY aware of the need to do this. I believe it was through His Will that this was so swiftly carried out. How else to medically (and by this world's standards) prove that she was more than Michael claimed?

Had he refused, he would have truly looked guilty - and poor baby didn't want that - but by this autopsy(I am sure Michael thought about this and was counseled by George)- some of the truth will finally come out, then the Schindlers can proceed - as we can - with doing what needs to be done - seeking Justice.

We all just need to be prepared for the lies Schiavo and Felos are going to tell, Greer is going to back up - when the results come in . I am sure Michael is preparing a story for every injury she ever sustained. JK


40 posted on 04/02/2005 6:21:05 AM PST by Just Kimberly (Always proud, Always American, Always Trust in God...HOOAH!!( and Terri - we will never forget.))
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To: Twinkie

That is correct.


41 posted on 04/02/2005 6:57:33 AM PST by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: Bayou City
"To honor Terri, we should dedicate ourselves to the long term work of building a new society, a culture of life and civilization of love, where the dignity of every human life will be the polestar of all public policy; marriage and family will be protected as the first mediating institution and defended against those who aim to replace and eradicate them; authentic freedom will be exercised in reference to truth and within a moral constitution, and our obligations in solidarity to one another, and most especially those who have no voice, will be upheld by elected and unelected public servants.

Beware of Hillary Care....we must never allow any elected, or non-elected person to legislate laws that order the killing of those considered 'useless' by the state.

We must strive to strike out the word "vegetable" when applied to human beings.

We must work to turn the treacherous course of dehumanizing the handicapped, diabled and infirm.

We must enforce upon our elected representatives that we abhor and despise the outright malicious cruel inhumane killing of innocent living human beings.

We must hold our elected and non-elected representatives accountable for failure to act when a life such as Terri's is at stake.

42 posted on 04/02/2005 7:58:04 AM PST by harpo11 (Sandy Document Stuffed Underwear Berger gets a slap on his wrist.Terri Schiavo got starved to death.)
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To: mjtobias

Your post is so wonderfully beautiful. It stirs my soul.


43 posted on 04/02/2005 7:58:40 AM PST by harpo11 (Sandy Document Stuffed Underwear Berger gets a slap on his wrist.Terri Schiavo got starved to death.)
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To: PhilDragoo

Excellent post! Zogby Poll, curiously a day too late for Terri.


44 posted on 04/02/2005 7:59:45 AM PST by harpo11 (Sandy Document Stuffed Underwear Berger gets a slap on his wrist.Terri Schiavo got starved to death.)
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To: Just Kimberly

Perhaps I am cynical, but I wouldn't trust ANYTHING that comes out of the Pinellas County system. I would suspect too much back scratching there. Too much who's who, what's what, who "knows" who, and who's got what either in power, influence and/or wealth.

I will be very surprised if the coroner examines ANYTHING more than her brain. . and Mikey making noises like he "ordered" an autopsy is laughable. His ordering days over Terri are just about over.

Whose brain wouldn't be in an atrophied and stressed state after the numerous attempts of days at this time and in the past to starve and dehydrate them? We will be "assured" that what happened to Terri was "proper". I'm just about 99.9% on that.


45 posted on 04/02/2005 8:25:58 AM PST by Twinkie (For it is written, even the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.)
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To: Bayou City; PhilDragoo; Arthur Wildfire! March
bump / ping!

46 posted on 04/02/2005 8:27:42 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (There is only one GOOD 'RAT: one that has been voted OUT of POWER !! Straight ticket GOP!)
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To: Ceebass
I think you need to have performed 5 miracles.

I think she may have already....surived 15 years...went through hell and back...galvanized those dedicated to the preservation of life...and a few more that I can't think of right now.

47 posted on 04/02/2005 8:32:14 AM PST by Heff ("Liberty is not America's gift to the world, it's the Almighty's gift to humanity" GW Bush 4/12/04)
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To: phatus maximus

I don't know if she was or was not bulimic but as far as I read the only thing that seemed to lead to this diagnose was a low postassium level.
By the way if bad eating habits lead to heart attacks how come jockeys aren't dropping of heart attacks every day.
I think there was a lot more to her original hospitalization that is being covered up by Geer and his cronies.


48 posted on 04/02/2005 8:32:58 AM PST by LauraJean (sometimes I win sometimes I donate to the equine benevolent society)
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