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To: bd476
"the church always tried to keep (the papacy) out of the hands of the superpower" of the day, whether the Holy Roman Empire, Spain or France. The exception, the 14th century French popes who moved the Holy See to Avignon, proved disastrous."

the ascension of the French Popes and the move of the Papacy to Avignon (now called the Avignon captivity) resulted directly from the murder of two Popes and the seizure of the Papacy by armed forces of King Phillip of France, led by Guillaume de Nogart.

The Conclave of Cardinals that chose the French Popes was made up of Frenchmen originally loyal to Philip appointed by him after dismissing, running off or murdering, almost all of the sitting Cardinals. After Philip's untimely death (he was cursed by one of his victims to "meet me before the throne of God for judgement and did die within a year) the Kings of France continued to hold the reins of appointments of Cardinals for nearly 70 years, and therefore held the Papacy as a puppet of their rule.

To this day the Catholic Church still pretends that this was all somehow OK and we should all just ignore this bizarre episode as having no importance.

Oh, and the Templars really were heretics. Philip and Guillaume said so as an excuse to sieze their treasury and lands. It must be true. A Catholic King said so and the Pope who dared to challenge him on his crimes died (of poisoning). It must be God's truth, otherwise He woudln't have allowed it to happen.

18 posted on 04/03/2005 7:14:10 AM PDT by Phsstpok ("When you don't know where you are, but you don't care, you're not lost, you're exploring.")
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To: Phsstpok

That whole 'superpower of the day' comment is nonsense. The reason that the papacy has generally stayed out of the hands of the superpower of the day is simply because Italy hasn't been the superpower of the day since before Emperor Constantine the Great....


20 posted on 04/03/2005 7:21:05 AM PDT by AntiGuv (™)
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To: Phsstpok
To this day the Catholic Church still pretends that this was all somehow OK and we should all just ignore this bizarre episode as having no importance.

Let's just say it was not the first Babylonian Captivity for God's people.

On the night he was arrested, Jesus's disciples all fled. The chief of them denied him three times. So long as the Church is composed of fallen men, there will be sin within it.

79 posted on 04/03/2005 9:34:30 AM PDT by The Iguana
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