Posted on 05/03/2005 9:50:07 AM PDT by IMissPresidentReagan
The judge knows full well how it happened. And he knows it happens all the time, and he knows it won't stop in his lifetime.
The most rabid pro abortion people would object to that since you could put a diaper on before sticking the knife into a partially delivered fetus/child.
I didn't make any generalization. Just pointed out that there ARE women who don't regret abortions, and women who regret not having had them. And neither are particularly rare.
All mothers sometimes question why they are mother's but I would much rather question this than wonder why I KILLED by child. Advocates of life generally have a reason they feel so strongly about choosing life over death. Have you had an abortion?
I'd hate to go back to that though. If you got a cut and it got infected, you'd very likely end up dead, because antibiotics hadn't been invented yet, and if you got snowed into your home in a blizzard and brutal cold, you just froze to death, because phones and SUVs and helicopters hadn't been invented yet.
Many of mine died from sickness that could be easily cured now, some I'll never know the cause, but the freezing to death hasn't happened in my long line of American rural ancestors on both sides, insofar as what I've been able to ascertain.
From early Massachusetts, Connecticut, northern New Hampshire, to Ohio, to Illinois, to Nebraska, they all knew how to prepare for and get through the winter safely for generations. There is one incident during a blizzard in Nebraska where one went out to check for the animals and got disoriented. They found him and brought him to safety, but he was never quite the same after that. I've read accounts of other peoples' families, and it did occasionally happen, but given the primitive conditions, it's surprising that it didn't happen more.
It's amazing what survival skills they had under the conditions and so many lived into old age, with several exceptions of a wife or husband dying young. All but a very few lost one or more children, sometimes whole strings of them. They had to travel in the winter by horse and sled or wagon and wagons often got stuck. My paternal grandmother got pneumonia going to her father's funeral in the dead of winter in a horse-drawn wagon shortly after the birth of my father, but fortunately she recovered.
I think I remember being told that sometimes they went into town (7 miles) by sled in the snowdrifts and went right over the fences. That seems pretty risky now. They only ventured out when they had to though. I know that.
Sorry for going off-topic. The topic is abortion. I don't think anybody would have approved of it no matter what in those times, but if it had been available, no doubt some would have taken advantage of it. For all I know, maybe they tried primitive techniques.
You aren't going to get me to say that abortion is ever a good thing, even though I'm mindful of dumping a kid into such disfunctional and poverty/drug-ridden environments is not a good option either.
No, the generalizations remark was directed to those who think all women regret their decision.
I'm a historian, and I can vouch that those old-timers had herbal abortificants. Raspberry tea can cause uterine contractions, I believe.
I don't know where your community is, but big city public hospitals all have "boarder baby" populations. Mothers either refused to take the baby home, or were prevented from doing so due to their criminal/drug background (and in some cases because they're headed straight back to prison after delivering). And the state child welfare agency has nowhere to put them. Some have parental rights issues precluding adoption, but not all. And virtually none have any obstacles to long term foster care placement.
Yes, but then they would have started raising it the same way they raised the girl, and the baby would soon end up in the same system.
No, I'm a responsible person, and like most responsible people, have avoided unwanted pregnancy.
That's why there is literally no good outcome here.
Juvenile Judge Ronald Alvarez (search) on Monday ruled that the teen, who has been in state custody for four years, would not be physically or emotionally harmed by the procedure. >>>
No? How about breast cancer, depression, infection, infertility, suicide, etc.
And how about the baby, will he not be physically or emotionally harmed while being torn apart, burned or aspirated?
>>on Monday ruled that the teen, who has been in state custody for four years>>>
Yep, the state of FL is doing a great job in protecting its children, and it seems the FL ACLU agrees.
I too know I will never adopt one. And I refuse to be hypocritical and go around insisting they have to get born, claiming that "somebody" will adopt them.
Well put. I think sometimes quality of life does matter.
This girl, pregnant at 13, living in DCF custody since age 9, is going to have plenty of problems, abortion or no abortion. Having this child is not going to turn her life around.
C'mon, not all those things happen to everyone who has an abortion. I don't agree with abortion, but when you make such generalization (I know, I've read the studies) it makes us all look less reliable.
Thank God someone is addressing reality here. You are the real political conservative on this thread of theocrats. Yes, wouldn't it be nice if we lived in an ideal world where everything is perfect and taken care of-we don't! This girl is making an unfortunate but wise decision here. I hope she will get an education and a job and get out of the state welfare agency that has already done so badly by her.
And for those who claim they have the 13-year old's best interest at heart in demanding that she give birth and hand the baby over to "the loving two-parent households that are desperate for children" I have to say it is not this girl's responsibility to provide babies for the infertile. Maybe God didn't want those couples to have children or he wouldn't have made them infertile.
That has been my question all along. The girl may have the right under state law to have an abortion, but the state does not have the responsibility of paying for it. Let her pay for it herself or let the father pay for the abortion.
I suspected but did not know about that exact remedy. Nor would I deny that some obscure ancestor may not have resorted to it.
It was never discussed that I can remember. The first I heard about it was reading the paper as a teenager where some woman, may have been married, wanted to go to Sweden to get an abortion. I filed that away in the "bewilderment" portion of my brain. Nobody I knew would ever do such a thing, and most of those were only nominally religious.
I come from a long rural tradition where there was probably a lot of peer pressure, everybody raising kids was married to each other, usually were the biological parents of the children in the household, sometimes taking in an orphan, or widowed/widower, and they had a very strong sense of community. There was probably a lot of gossip. But there were very strong family ties. And I strongly doubt there were very many herbal tea abortions.
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