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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
"And the church is trying to be "seeker-friendly" because no one is doing their job throughout the week."

I think you hit the nail on the head here. In my local church, the pastor doesn't bother to call on the sick, visit, or perform any of the traditional roles of a pastor. Instead, he is running around the country holding seminars on "How to grow a church" when he can't grow his own. Oh, he's had hundreds of new people come, but hundreds of others depart, because it is "seeker friendly" rather than congregation friendly. A family member who was suffering from a very serious illness was never even given the courtesy of a prayer or visit. Instead, the failure to help them was blamed by saying "our home care group dropped the ball". THIS IS THE INDICTMENT OF THE SEEKER FRIENDLY CHURCH! They seek new members, but cannot take care of who is already there!

91 posted on 05/07/2005 9:46:26 AM PDT by TommyDale
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To: TommyDale

What you write about a church and staff that are too busy building their church can probably be applied to many churches, but as I mentioned, I attend and support a church that, prayerfully, decided to apply the "Purpose Driven" program.

This is a dynamic church, filled with people at all stages of their Christian development, with programs of all kinds to help them grow, encourage them in their faith and to serve in many, many capacities.

At the core of my participation is a small group. It is a men's group that has been meeting for 8 years. I joined in 2001. Let me give you some results since the "40 Days of Purpose". One member coaches a "Cross-over" basketball team, and has for the last three years. The point is to engage young men who have never seen the inside of a church, and never would, in all probability, to confront Jesus Christ, not in your face, but one on one. The young man who does this is in his mid-30's relatively newly-wed, and gives up a lot of his personal time to do something he is qualified to do.

Another has taken on responsibilities in kids programs. Another has gone on two missions, the latest, to Bali, Indonesia. Another has gone to Zambia. Another is going to Papua, New Guinea in July. These are working guys who are giving up a major part of their vacation time to serve in the best way they can. Finally, one group member, in his 60's, has quit his job, sold his house and is preparing for full-time service in Arkansas...going out completely on faith.

Our church is bustling with programs for all kinds of people, especially people who are hurting and need the love of Christ. I don't have time for all that is being done, and to be honest, a lot of it was done before "40 Days". "40 Days" just helped to focus on what the Purpose really was.

Yeah, the music is loud, and I can't sing along with most of the songs, but it is worshipful and quiet, too. Our preacher is good, funny (he was, after all, a former Youth for Christ director), and expositor. I could be critical about many things at the church I attend. But I keep it to myself.


144 posted on 05/07/2005 11:16:55 AM PDT by norge
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To: TommyDale
That's a sad story.

I grew up in a church that was very nurturing, but there were those who didn't like it. It met my needs perfectly. Now I am finding it very difficult to find a church I feel satisfied with. I don't want Hollywood being the basis of my Scripture teachings at church, so "First Church of the Holy Cinema" (that's what I call it) is out of the question for me (they are big on movie clips in church). I feel that godless atheists are not the right people to lead off the sermon, talented or not. Maybe I'm crazy. At the same time I try to accept the fact that their core teachings are really very solid. My issue is a little deeper than style, but it doesn't make them my enemy. They are fellow Christians.

There are good churches around, but they will have elements I'm not fond of. Like being on television. And some of the issue is my fault. I haven't tried hard enough to find the right place. Seeker friendly churches are all over the place and I just can't take it. Oh, I don't mind the coffee, the jeans, even the contemporary mustic so much. It's the baby food that bugs me. I'm not going to want Gerber's for lunch and I'm not going to want feel-good "God loves everyone" sermons every week. I don't want the pastor to help me feel better about myself as I am. I want him to help me see how God wants me to live. Then I can make the adjustments. I want him to teach me how to better serve God throughout the week. Then I can make the adjustments. See? I want this guy who has more time than I have, to STUDY and KNOW Scripture. I want him to be like some really great software -- a shortcut to help me improve my walk with the Lord. That might be an imperfect example, but I just feel that there is too much marketing, too much SELLING, going on. It begins to look like a big scam. Let's trick people into coming to church. Let's give them a watered-down gospel and trick them into becoming Christians. Later we can give them the fine print details. (And later never happens.) Specifically, repentance is left out with the idea that people will repent after the fact because then the Holy Spirit will convict them. I think they must repent of all sin (known sin) first or they are rejecting the true gospel. Anyway, in reality, the gospel must sell itself. It is a beautiful message and a difficult messge all at the same time. Also, it's a message we should share while out serving needs. At church, we should receive training on just how to do that.

I think a false gospel is WAY WORSE than no gospel, because it is harder to recover from.

The Church should be about equipping believers. "Just as you trusted Christ to save you, trust Him too for each days problems, live in vital union with Him." (I think that's the Living Bible translation that I memorized as a teenager.) That's not something to sell either. It is simply a truth to be taught.

I think a pure church is far more important than a big church.

I'm rambling on and I'm not sure where I'm headed. LOL! Looking at a different angle, I also think that the world looks at the Church (true believers) and they don't see us loving each other. We fight with each other over little stuff. Some of these issues are really vital. Some are not. Either way, we ought to be more private and loving when we disagree. We split into factions, which isn't entirely a bad thing, but then we war over the little differences. Still, I think you are right that there is a movement in the church to repackage the gospel. The gospel-lite. All it is is a false gospel, and it is sad to see such good, well-meaning people sell deception. Untruth can come in beautiful packages.

I hope some of this makes sense. Now I've got to go.

145 posted on 05/07/2005 11:19:31 AM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Legislatures are so outdated. If you want real political victory, take your issue to court.)
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