Posted on 05/12/2005 8:49:57 PM PDT by ConservativeMan55
On this we can certainly agree. Anyway, I DO appreciate your opinion on the Times' story. I just trust their coverage more than most. Don't worry though... I'm just as cynical about any media as you are. This on-going issue, however, has me boiling mad.
I don't have to see it in the lefty press - I want the original document published so I can see it and read it with my own eyes.
It would seem that with the other threads on this article the FReepers are on top of it. This isn't going away at all.
There is no "original document". The verbal orders were relayed from Nicely to the Naco supervisors - verbally. Nicely is stupid, but he isn't that stupid. There isn't a paper trail. You've got a couple of Border Patrol Agents known to retired Colonel Ben Anderson last week and then a dozen this week giving independent verification to the story to The Washington Times. You won't get their names because everyone else who has stepped forward to complain about this stuff and expose has either been fired or suspended.
Bush thinks conservatives are WRONG about illegal immigration.
that is because he is NOT a conservative.
look at the spending increases.
look at the lack of PERMANENT tax cuts.
look at the hestitancy for the whole party to go nuclear on the judges.
look at the larger more intrusive social programs.
look at the police state expansion and militarization under the guise of 'homeland security'
now look at the republican party icon gingrich, licking hillary clintons crotch on health care.
they are ALL socialists.
And W is the head one.
they are one worlders, and regional government worshippers.
they are interventionists in EVERY thing they can possibly twist into via ANY perverted reading of our constitution, and as such acting like enemies of the very document they are pledged by their lives to uphold.
Bush has sold us out. He needs us NOT, for re election. Without the need to be reelected, we are seeing his true colors, perhaps as a group for the first time.
As individuals MANY conservatives have chaffed at his comments and approach and policies in this way or that. This ONE issue, is really stripping it down naked for us all to see.
I for one am not real tickled with what I see.
At least we are working on CAFTA right?
so then I am sure you will be voting to bring another Clinton into the White House then?
give me a friggin break.!!!!!
There are other, murkier ties to other Korean elements.
Still, the staff there are pretty good and produce a quality paper. They also publish numerous Conservative commentators.
But BSF I'm not new to FR and I still get confused. I grew up in Houston, my very best friends in elementary school were half Mexican and half Canadian. I'm not sure what his job was but I'm assuming it had to do with the Consulate. My friend's grandfather was President of one of the border states of Mexico. Yeah, they were legal and they weren't your typical legal immigrant. He was transferred back to Canada when I was in the 6th grade.
I understand about the high costs illegal immigration is costing us. Hospitals along the border going bankrupt, benefits given to illegals, paying to educate their children, even in my prior career before I retired there were special mortgage programs designed to get low income hispanics into their own homes. (had a pretty high default rate too back when I was working) I hate calling my bank and having to choose whether I want to conduct my business in english or spanish. I'm an english speaking legal American and I don't want to push that stupid button informing the bank I want to deal in English. Seriously bad gangs moving into my hometown of Dallas and into the city I was raised in, Houston.
The flip side: Haven't there always been migrant workers who would come in and work the fields at a wage an American wouldn't work for? So we kick the illegal migrant workers out and then there's the uproar about Americans working under the poverty level so we must have programs to help them. Food subsidies, medical subsidies, housing subsidies, I'm pretty darned sure the liberals would be in full support of subsidies for American migrant workers and probably a number of republicans too. And we think affirmative action is bad now but think about what it would be with American migrants, moving around and not having good access to an education. So, again, bankrupt schools, hospital subsidies and housing subsidies.
I want the borders closed because I'm tired of the crime. So what do we do that's realistic?
You don't understand how bureaucracies really work. Half the crap that goes down at lower levels (e.g., Tucson BP Sector) is managers trying to read tea leaves and smoke signals to make educated guesses about their boss' expectations and their boss' boss' expectations, ad infinitum. Something like this case could arise at local levels without being ordered from on high.
Don't misunderstand me: I'm not giving Dubyah a pass on his immigration policies. What I am saying is that it would be insane for him or other top dogs in the DHS/BP hierarchy to issue an order like this. But Nicely could be dumb enough - this is a guy who said (IIRC) "Yes, I believe that we can stop illegal immigration in the Tucson Sector..." when he was appointed to his position.
I'm not saying Bush issued an "order". I am saying that Bush supports the order, and the BP knows it. Of course, Bush would have to maintain deny-ability. You are letting Bush hide behind a "bureaucracy" and all this does is remove any responsibility while allowing Bush to carry out the policy he wants. Could you cite one example from Bush that would indicate he really wants to control the border, other than his words?
Okay. I could have sworn, though, that I remember they bought it back in the mid-90s. But, I defer to you on this since I'm not sure.
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