Gun Safety 101 Sparks Debate (in Arizona Schools)

FoxNews ^ | May 25, 2005 | FoxNews

[FairOpinion]

Arizona schools have added a fourth "R" to reading, writing and arithmetic — rifles.

Students who choose to enroll in this new course learn the safe way to handle a gun and earn one credit — the equivalent to ceramics or photography electives. Critics are gunning the debate; they say handing teenagers loaded weapons equals trouble.

“We learn life skills, like when we miss [a shot], not to get mad. You learn a lot of cooperation with your team members,” said student Kim Peters.

And many parents argue they would rather their children learn how to handle a gun and be safe, than be sorry.

[Route101]

gun safety should be like tying shoelaces...second nature.

[SittinYonder]

If single mothers are not telling their sons and daughters not to play with guns (which is the most basic form of gun safety training) then that is bad parenting. It should not be the role of schools to attempt to make up for bad parenting.

[SittinYonder]

We don't teach gun safety cause around here that'd be like teaching shoe tyin'

Did your parents or your teachers teach you how to tie your shoes?

[papertyger]

If single mothers are not telling their sons and daughters not to play with guns (which is the most basic form of gun safety training) then that is bad parenting.

Now your just trying to save face.

The whole point is telling kids not to play with guns isn't enough. And it's not the most basic form of gun safety. It's ignoring the natural proclivities of children.

[papertyger]

Did your parents or your teachers teach you how to tie your shoes?

Shoes? What's shoes?

;o>

[SittinYonder]

Now your just trying to save face.

Your concept of the role of government frightens me. Your willingness to turn over to the government your responsibility as a parent should frighten your children.

It is not necessary for everyone in this country to know how to use a gun. Many people get by just fine knowing only the most basic lesson in gun safety - don't play with guns. Yet for some reason, you seem to be under the impression that this is a skill as necessary to modern life as driving a car.

[papertyger]

Your concept of the role of government frightens me. Your willingness to turn over to the government your responsibility as a parent should frighten your children.

Don't confuse my "concept of the role of government" with what you are imputing to me. I have said nothing about a governmental "role" on this issue. I simply accept the fact that many Americans do not share my interest in firearms, and so have little interest in informing their children on the subject.

You, on the other hand, begin insisting on firearm training "at home," then claim "it's not necessary for everyone."

Well which is it?

[SittinYonder]

You, on the other hand, begin insisting on firearm training "at home," then claim "it's not necessary for everyone."

There's nothing contradictory about what I've said. Even at the most basic level - teaching children not to play with firearms - it is the parents' responsibility. Some will teach more than that, others won't and don't have to.

I see no difference in this than I do the schools teaching sex ed or character ed or driver's ed. It is not the role of the government to teach my children about sex, about manners or how to drive. And under these circumstances it is certainly not the role of the government to teach my children how to shoot.

[Hardastarboard]

I'm a total nazi when it comes to gun safety. I really lay down the law when i bring people to the range with me just like my father did when i was young.

I'm with you there, my friend. I grew up around guns, and assumed everyone else had also. I used to show people my guns, and assume that they would treat them as loaded, even though I knew they weren't (didn't want to insult anyone). I quickly realized that most people are clueless about guns, even a lot of guys who grew up in the country.

I reminded my kids of the three basic rules of gun safety EVERY time I took them shooting (there are more, I know, but these are the most important, IMHO):

1) Always treat every gun as if it's loaded

2) Finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot

3) Always make sure of your target and the backstop.

On a final note, I look like an idiot sometimes, going around exercising good trigger discipline on my cordless drill, but I know I'll never drill anything until I'm ready. :-)

[papertyger]

Even at the most basic level - teaching children not to play with firearms - it is the parents' responsibility.

This is the fundamental flaw with your argument. Like proving a negative, you can't teach anyone NOT to do something: only TO do something. You can try to constantly reinforce prohibition, but you can't instruct to prohibit.

With half of all American households containing guns, it is simply irresponsible to consign the children of the non-gun owning homes to total ignorance of the subject.

[WorkingClassFilth]

If anything, American History and Civics need to return in full force to the public schools. The pinko curriculum in today's schools and the teachers that often teach it are separate considerations. The public schools were originally thought of as places where a nation of immigrants could all learn of our culture, language, ideals and way of life. We desperately need to return to that mission instead of instill multi-cultural crap and creating more divisions in society. That is, and will continue to be, a battleground. In the meantime, I advocate getting your kids out of the publik skoolz in order to diminish their strength, budget and power and perhaps most importantly to break the NEA.

Seems to me that firearms training forced on the schools will foster an atmosphere contrary to their usual pap and create a strong counter line to the indoctrination the students get in all their other classes. How can one murder the Constitutional rights and them teach firearm safety? How can a curriculum argue against self-determination and them teach them the very basis on which it obtains and preserved in this world? It is clear to me that the reason that firearms training is NOT in schools today is the very reason that we need to return to it as a part of our educational training. There are reasons the left hates this sort of thing, you know...

[School of Rational Thought]

"I'm a total Nazi when it comes to gun safety. I really lay down the law when i bring people to the range with me just like my father did when i was young."

I'm a total Nazi when it comes to standard English and grammar. I really lay down the law when I have to read substandard communication, just like my father did when I was young.

[SittinYonder]

This is the fundamental flaw with your argument. Like proving a negative, you can't teach anyone NOT to do something: only TO do something.

I imagine I could teach you NOT to put your hand in boiling water.

If you want to find a fundamental flaw with the argument that parents and not schools should be teaching gun safety, then do it on somebody else's time. It's absurd to turn your responsibilities over to the schools, and that's all I have to say about it.

[TXnMA]

What children are getting "no instruction" in gun safety?

Are you deliberately "playing ostritch" on us?

There are hundreds of PC school districts who won't even allow the NRA to visit and present their excellent (and effective) "Eddie Eagle" gun safety program: -- simply because it is presented by the "eeeevil NRA Gun Lobby":

Q: What is the Eddie Eagle Program?

A: The Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program is a gun accident prevention program for children in pre-kindergarten through third grade. Using instructional materials including workbooks, an animated video, and student reward stickers, the program's safety mascot, Eddie Eagle, teaches children that if they find a gun in an unsupervised situation, they should:

STOP! Don't Touch. Leave the Area. Tell an Adult.

BTW, that last line is the course content. That's it.

BTW, "Eddie Eagle" is not for our own kids -- for whom we rightly assume the responsibility of teaching gun safety. It is for the millions of kids who have liberal parents, who, themselves are fearful and ignorant of firearms and firearm safety ...kids who might just manage to run across an unsecured firearm when they are in your home...

Would you keep "Eddie Eagle" out of your kids' school?

[SittinYonder]

This isn't the Eddie Eagle program.

[SittinYonder]

Clearly you're not satisfied with the curriculum in schools. Why do you think, if they can't teach history without a liberal revisionist slant, that they'll be able to teach firearms to your satisfaction?

[AnAmericanMother]

Hope your brother gave that grandchild a quick re-education, with an opportunity to go out to the range and plink a little with a .22 . . .

[JOE43270]

Hopefully the success the children have will inspire them to work harder on the "READIN, WRITIN, and ARITHMETHIC".

[WorkingClassFilth]

I'm not satisfied - I homeschool. Abandoning the publik skoolz to their own demise isn't the path either. IMO, all sources of pressure should be brought to bear: legislative, homeschool choice, local control of curriculum, etc.

In the case of firearms training, you can bet your bottom dollar that it wouldn't taught by yer average educator. The schools would be so paranoid about lawsuits that it would likely be staffed and run by complete professionals. At the least, people who actually know something.

More than the mechanics of operating the course, however, is the symbolic and ideological benefit of such curriculum. Clearly, this is a turd on the alter of leftist idealism. As I stated before, this single initiative would undermine all sorts of left-think propositions that are taught K-12.

[Dead Corpse]

This isn't the Eddie Eagle program.

It IS a hell of a lot better than nothing.