Growing Problem for Military Recruiters: Parents

NYT ^ | June 3 05 | Damien Cave

[churchillbuff]

Two years into the war in Iraq, as the Army and Marines struggle to refill their ranks, parents have become boulders of opposition that recruiters cannot move.

Mothers and fathers around the country said they were terrified that their children would have to be killed - or kill - in a war that many see as unnecessary and without end.

At schools, they are insisting that recruiters be kept away, incensed at the access that they have to adolescents easily dazzled by incentive packages and flashy equipment.

A Department of Defense survey last November, the latest, shows that only 25 percent of parents would recommend military service to their children, down from 42 percent in August 2003.

"Parents," said one recruiter in Ohio who insisted on anonymity because the Army ordered all recruiters not to talk to reporters, "are the biggest hurdle we face."

[SedVictaCatoni]

However, I believe that the admin is too PC. They always say a GWOT. Thats BS. Why don't they say a war on Islamic fundamentalist extremist. Thats what you suggest they mean, but they never say it. Is that not who we are fighting?

To some extent, the term "Global War on Terror" encompasses non-Islamic terrorists like FARC and ETA - the principle is that non-state military groups are no longer acceptable. However, since the Islamic fundamentalist groups are far and away the most dangerous, they're the ones to actually go and fight.

Do you suggest we leave Iraq now since we have all the terrorist right where we want them?

No. I think we should remain and kill as many of them as possible, and continue to train the Iraqi armed forces to kill as many of them as possible.

Is the long term strategy to allow the terrorist in Iraq and then leave without defeating them?

The long-term strategy is to kill as many Al-Qaeda militants as possible, and to starve them of money and personnel, while continuing to break their organizational network.

I am not sure why you thought my post advocated withdrawing from Iraq. We should remain until we have accomplished our goal - establishing the closest thing that the Middle East has to a Western nation, in order to exert catastrophic pressure on Syria, terrify Iran into submission, stabilize the Gulf states, strengthen pro-Western factions in Saudi Arabia, and give Lebanon and Egypt a chance to follow in Iraq's footsteps. So far, so good.

[CGVet58]

Sir, with all due respect, I believe you may be wrong on this - members of Congress do have family/children in our wars today, and @ I believe a higher rate than the comparative general population. I don't have the exact numbers, but allow me to illustrate:

But that 'rate' would be a smoke screen - if say, for example, out of the 535 members of congress, 35 had family/children in uniform today (and that would not include members who actually have served in uniform, such as former President Bush, Sen Inouye, etc...), that would be roughly 6.5 percent of the body. Compare this to the general population; almost 300 million Americans, from which roughly 3 million currently active or reserve - or 1 percent. Again, I use the above numbers as an example, because I don't have the exact figures; but the above example is generally correct.

As for your feelings on the Gulf War, you'll get no critiques from me for freely expressing your beliefs in a sober and respectful manner.

As a Vet, I can tell you that even as I am the last to wish a war, I am also in favor of this necessary war and only wish we would prosecute it on the other critical fronts more effectively - but that is another thread.

God Bless, and please tell your sobrina that she goes with our prayers and expectations that she will be a worthy representative of the Greatest Military the World has ever known.

[Steve Van Doorn]

From the beginning I believe our leadership understands the war on terror isn’t a threat for the survival of the nation as WWII(not at this point at least.) Terrorists are like a child kicking at your feet once in a while it will hurt a little.

Bush in his own way has fought this war accordingly. We want the boarders closed for added security and other reasons but many in government want illegals to come across the board for the lower wages. You and I do not agree with that but we are not making those decisions.

[Mr. Rips]

I agree. It's always been us on the lower end doing the fighting. Unfortunately I'm no senators son. That's just the way it is. Don't let any of these arm chair generals get to you. It's easy to talk the talk but how many have said there goodbyes to an indefinite deployment, it's not fun. It makes me sick to my stomach that over 1600 men and women have died for this foreign adventure.

[Allegra]

I have a right to mine - and it happens to have been borne out as pretty accurate, when you look at the mess that is Iraq today.

But you're looking at it through the media's eyes.

The Iraq created by the media and the real Iraq are two very different animals.

[fr_freak]

As far as I'm concerned, these parents are actively interfering with their children's transfer to adulthood. I can understand that a parent never stops worrying about their child, but a decision like going into the military needs to be made by the child, not by the parent. None of these kids will be going in before they're 18 (without parental sign-off). An 18 year old boy has made the first step toward being a man when he takes on a decision like this on his own. Whether he decides to join or not, he and he alone has decided what he believes in and what he is willing to do for that belief, and any parent that attempts to make such a decision for him is denying him his birthright. Once upon a time, teenagers were treated like adults and they acted like adults. Now they are coddled nearly until their 30s.

My dad was actually agains my enlisting in the army, not because he was against the military at all (he held a reserve naval commission) but because he would have preferred that I went in as an officer, and he would especially have preferred that I didn't go infantry. However, I made the decision to enlist as a grunt, and I ended up in Iraq for Desert Storm. Sometimes I regret having chosen that path, and you could debate the necessity of Desert Storm every bit as much as you could the current situation, but in the end it was MY decision and as such, was one of the things that most shaped my life. These days, my service in that time and place is one of the things that I am most proud of.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

The Air Force just in the last year forced out 20,000 airmen because they were overmanned. Retention in the AF is at an all-time high.

They should have built more planes instead.

[CGVet58]

Have been reading through this thread and the responses amaze me - hence my directing this present remark to all.

Let's get a grip here, freepers. Remember...

(A) this is the ny SLIMES reporting this.

(B) the above bird-cage liner sophisticatedly (is that even a word???) leaves the impression that no-one in Congress has familial representation in the war. That is simply Not True, and - as in a previous response I wrote to ChurchillBuff - their familial representation is proportionally larger than is that of the total US Population / current Military force correlation.

(C) As for the "rich kids don't fight; the poor have to" canard???? Again, another lie; with roots in the leftist media propaganda Big Lie born in Vietnam. 58000 dead in that war, 8,000 of them were officers (14%).

And this b/s about the poor joining up for the money? Does anyone here (who's not military...) know how much money a buck private makes? Trust me, it's not for the money.

More Lies...Blacks and Hispanics doing the dying, LBJ doing the lying??? That was as false 35 years ago as it is today. Most of our military in Vietnam were volunteers; ALL of our military today is volunteer. Ck out the below link for Vietnam casualties:

http://www.archives.gov/research_room/research_topics/vietnam_war_casualty_lists/statistics.html#race

The above even has a statistic showing selective service (ie: draftees) deaths as part of the total - 17,000 out of 58,000 total deaths, or 29 percent. Blacks? 7,000 deaths, or 12 percent. Total Negro representation was 14 percent, at a time when their proportion in our population was 11 percent. Caucasian (amongst which Hispanics were counted...) - 50,000 deaths, or 86 percent.

I could go on, but please remember... We Freepers have to remember that anything coming from the media about anything will always have a slant. Sometimes the charges are so onerous that it rightly (and quickly) gets our Irish up... most times, though, the lies are fed and repeated to us in measured tones, whispered asides in our ears, imprinted with such an obviously reasonable delivery that we let our guard down to their seductiveness until we ourselves become repeaters of the diluted propaganda quip. Like babies having their tummies rubbed to go asleep... or frogs in a pot of water being slowly heated to boil...

This is all very simple, clear as Night & Day. Never trust the fourth estate, for they are become the Fifth Column. Never, Ever, Ever, EVER take the word of someone whose foundation stone in-whatever-passes-muster-as-their relativistic Truth-of-the-moment is universally anchored in the belief that America is Always Wrong.

[CGVet58]

Sir, you understand the situation perfectly and express yourself with clarity. Thank you.

America Victa! Semper Paratus! Sic Semper Tyrannis!

[Steve Van Doorn]

“Don't let any of these arm chair generals get to you. It's easy to talk the talk but how many have said there goodbyes to an indefinite deployment, it's not fun. It makes me sick to my stomach that over 1600 men and women have died for this foreign adventure.”

I guess I am just an armchair general.

Wars between the middle east and the west has been going on for thousands of years. If we win this as I hope we do, I think it is actually possible this over all fight will finally end.

The key to this war is that sharia law and freedom can not co-exist. This will force change to the religon, no one said it would be easy.

[churchillbuff]

Churchillbluff hates the military"""

Really? Does that include the two young women in my family who are in the Air Force and headed to the Middle East? No, just because I oppose a particular policy of politicians (ie the Iraq invasion) -- just as I opposed Clinton in Kosovo -- it does not mean I "hate the military." Only someone who cannot or refuses to think logically would insist on that conclusion. Rightly or wrongly, Lincoln opposed the Mexican War. That did not mean that he "hated the military" Gen. Omar Bradley opposed MacArthur's plan for a war with China over north Korea. That did not mean that Bradley "hated the military." Ah, but I fear that this level of logic is wasted on you.

[Route101]

..."Parents," said one recruiter in Ohio who insisted on anonymity because the Army ordered all recruiters not to talk to reporters, "are the biggest hurdle we face."....the biggest hurdle the recuiters face is the nightly news interviewing each family of each soldier killed and gladly putting it on tv every day......Here in Seattle it starts with...Another soldier was killed today...Well, I wonder if those killed are being honored at all on the nightly news......

[Kitanis]

""The Air Force just in the last year forced out 20,000 airmen because they were over manned. Retention in the AF is at an all-time high.""

"They should have built more planes instead"

The USAF does not build aircraft.. they buy them with the blessing of congress in defense authorizations. So if you want more planes.. tell your congressman :_)

But I am in the Air Force.. and Force Shaping is a fact of life right now. But I only know about 20 or 30 airmen who have gotten out due to it.

[Kitanis]

Last Year I was in Qatar (A small Mid East country near Saudi Arabia) on a deployment. I use to read Free Republic on a daily basis but as I was there..

I found that I wanted to keep in touch with my home state.. and found Portland Indy Media for Oregon, kind of a mini freerepublic... So I would go there and see what they were saying.. it is basically a bastion of liberals and peace activists... But it was news to home.

I noticed one article from a mother who was angry that her son wished to join the US Army despite the fact that she opposed it. He was 17 and I gathered that her and him had many of arguments about his decision.

She was incensed that she answered the phone one day and found a Army recruiter who wished to talk to her son. When she found out that her Son was the one who asked for the recruiter to call.. she stated that she told the recruiter to never call that number again.

Then she went into a statement that she wanted the recruiters to be banned from calling anyone in the country because of her belief that the war was wrong. She also went into a statement that she believed that she could stop her son from joining the army because of her status as a mother.

I answered her post by giving a couple of suggestions of what she could do to halt the recruiter from bothering to talk to her son while he was 17. Stated that I was in the military and had volunteered to join and was on a deployment at the time. But after the boy turned 18.. then if he walked into a recruiters office on his own free will.. then that was the boys right under the law.

I could not believe the venom of posters who blasted me for even ID myself as a military member. But over the course of about three days I would reply calmly and try to get a discussion to see what the peacnik and passive folks believed about the war.

The mother was angry that her son wanted to join the Army at all.. and just had a opposite view from her son. The rest.. well it was simply a Anti-Bush/Anti-Violence rhetoric. But I found it interesting that the the next forum post was folks who were happy that a eco-terrorist beat up a logger. LOL

[Non-Sequitur]

I've got over 23 years service as an officer in the U.S. Navy on active duty and the reserves. And I agree with churchillbuff completely.

[verity]

It is only Churchillbutt being Churchillbutt.

[absolootezer0]

why don't we draft all the border jumpers. every army needs wall fodder, right? then these guys will have earned right to live in the us.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

But I am in the Air Force.. and Force Shaping is a fact of life right now. But I only know about 20 or 30 airmen who have gotten out due to it.

It isn't the shape I'm concerned about :-)

[RepublicMan4U]

Shh...you're not allowed to mention socio-economic class on FR, silly. Just simmer down and have a sip of this Koolade. It's delicious!

/sarcasm

[Lord Nelson]

Well put. I would prefer also bringing the battle to them than having it on US soil. The consequence of not brining the battle to them would mean a police state in the US to keep everyone safe. I would choose option 1.