[tsomer]

'"Measure the achievements of societies that conform to monotheistic standards against those that don't."'

Whoops. I meant to refer to monogamy. I didn't mean to wander into a discussion of religion. Brain slip. Actually I think it was because my wife was nagging me at the time.

I agree with you about the Romans, who celebrated monogamy as a civic virtue

I'm glad you see serious problems with polygamy. Serious problems. And I don't care what kind of arguments anyone wants to bring to this fight as long as they fight on our side. My argument is that permitting polygamy in any form will destroy our society. That same permissiveness will erode what remains of our standards towards pedophilia. I think you're wrong about the universality of our disgust at pedophilia. It was and remains widespread. I submit there is no innate biological predisposition, or that if there is, it is very weak and prone to failure. Our rejection of it stems from our understanding that it is exploitive and debased. Our revulsion is moral.

We despise exploitation though exploitation is an innate human tendency. We reject pedophilia because we've been taught, inculcated with the belief that it degrades. Likewise our rejection of polygamy: it degrades its adherents, undermines the social assumption of equality before God and the law, and so on. Permit one; open a door to the other.

[calenel]

"I agree with you about the Romans, who celebrated monogamy as a civic virtue"

Generally. Polygamy was also tolerated.

"My argument is that permitting polygamy in any form will destroy our society."

I think our society is more resilient, so I don't agree with you here.

"That same permissiveness will erode what remains of our standards towards pedophilia."

I disagree with this as well. The two are completely unrelated and only attempts to obfuscate bring them together. Polygamists do not, as a rule, have wives that are biologically incapable of reproduction due to immaturity. But if you want to make polygamy look bad to people who might otherwise choose not to intervene in what is nominally an activity between consenting adults, throw in some pedophilia or statutory rape and you've got game. And don't even start on the age of consent or arranged marriages arguments. I've already illustrated the subjectivity of the AOC argument and I broadly condemn arranged marriages including monogamous ones.

"I think you're wrong about the universality of our disgust at pedophilia."

Well, then, we'll just have to disagree. I think that only the mentally deranged would look at immature persons with sexual interest. If the liberal scumbags didn't coddle them there would be a lot less of it. Recidivism approaches 100% and if you can't rehabilitate them, why are they back on the street? Children are a protected class, and the rape of a child is a compund transgression.

"We reject pedophilia because we've been taught, inculcated with the belief that it degrades."

Degradation is minor compared to the other harm it does to the victim. But the strongest reaction I see is the outrage and fury directed at the perpetrator, especially if it is a repeat offense.

"Likewise our rejection of polygamy: it degrades its adherents, undermines the social assumption of equality before God and the law, and so on."

Therein lies the flaw in your argument. With pedophilia the distinction is quite clear: you have a perpetrator and a victim. With polygamy you cannot make that distinction - many of the victims are only victims in the eyes of outsiders. With pedophilia, the vast majority of victims view themselves as such. With polygamy, the presumptive victims are often perfectly content, even though they are aware of the views and practices of outsiders.

"Permit one; open a door to the other."

You still have not proven this. I maintain that there is no definitive relationship between polygamy and pedophilia.