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Lincoln holiday on its way out (West Virginia)
West Virginia Gazette Mail ^ | 9-8-2005 | Phil Kabler

Posted on 09/10/2005 4:46:12 AM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo

Lincoln holiday on its way out

By Phil Kabler Staff writer

A bill to combine state holidays for Washington and Lincoln’s birthdays into a single Presidents’ Day holiday cleared its first legislative committee Wednesday, over objections from Senate Republicans who said it besmirches Abraham Lincoln’s role in helping establish West Virginia as a state.

Senate Government Organization Committee members rejected several attempts to retain Lincoln’s birthday as a state holiday.

State Sen. Russ Weeks, R-Raleigh, introduced an amendment to instead eliminate Columbus Day as a paid state holiday. “Columbus didn’t have anything to do with making West Virginia a state,” he said. “If we have to cut one, let’s cut Christopher Columbus.”

Jim Pitrolo, legislative director for Gov. Joe Manchin, said the proposed merger of the two holidays would bring West Virginia in line with federal holidays, and would effectively save $4.6 million a year — the cost of one day’s pay to state workers.

Government Organization Chairman Ed Bowman, D-Hancock, said the overall savings would be even greater, since by law, county and municipal governments must give their employees the same paid holidays as state government.

“To the taxpayers, the savings will be even larger,” he said.

The bill technically trades the February holiday for a new holiday on the Friday after Thanksgiving. For years, though, governors have given state employees that day off with pay by proclamation.

Sen. Sarah Minear, R-Tucker, who also objected to eliminating Lincoln’s birthday as a holiday, argued that it was misleading to suggest that eliminating the holiday will save the state money.

“It’s not going to save the state a dime,” said Minear, who said she isn’t giving up on retaining the Lincoln holiday.

Committee members also rejected an amendment by Sen. Steve Harrison, R-Kanawha, to recognize the Friday after Thanksgiving as “Lincoln Day.”

“I do believe President Lincoln has a special place in the history of West Virginia,” he said.

Sen. Randy White, D-Webster, said he believed that would create confusion.

“It’s confusing to me,” he said.

Senate Judiciary Chairman Jeff Kessler, D-Marshall, suggested that the state could recognize Lincoln’s proclamation creating West Virginia as part of the June 20 state holiday observance for the state’s birthday.

Proponents of the measure to eliminate a state holiday contend that the numerous paid holidays - as many as 14 in election years — contribute to inefficiencies in state government.

To contact staff writer Phil Kabler, use e-mail or call 348-1220.


TOPICS: Government; US: West Virginia
KEYWORDS: abelincoln; lincoln; sorrydemocrats; westvirginia
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To: Non-Sequitur
N-S, i'm NOT going to argue with you AGAIN about this.

you have a REAL BUG under your saddle about the POTCSA's "failure" to appoint a CSSC. that's YOUR problem, not mine.

neither of us will ever agree that the other is correct on this, so let's drop it now.

free dixie,sw

651 posted on 09/29/2005 2:08:27 PM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: hirn_man
actually, you are 100% WRONG about that.

over 95% of all the PLPOWC guards were white.

blacks were TRIED, but weren't "severe enough", so they were QUICKLY replaced with white persons, who were MOSTLY being employed as guards rather than confining those same persons as PRISONERS.

may i gently point out that you need to go do some READING from other than REVISIONIST/damnyankee-apologist sources.

are you aware that over 15,000 helpless CSA POWs were MURDERED at Point Lookout DEATH CAMP??

free dixie,sw

652 posted on 09/29/2005 2:12:42 PM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: M. Espinola
as usual, you're showing yourself to be not only a MORON, but an ignorant FOOL as well.

also, a HATER.

free dixie,sw

653 posted on 09/29/2005 2:14:00 PM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: stand watie
"as usual, you're showing yourself to be not only a MORON, but an ignorant FOOL as well. also, a HATER. free dixie,sw"

See a doctor nutso. Make that three doctors, since you will drive the first two off the deep end in short order.

654 posted on 09/29/2005 2:24:15 PM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
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To: M. Espinola
EVERY post you make, makes you look like MORE of an ignorant FOOL & the forum's worst HATER.

be gone to DU. they LIKE fools & haters over there.

free dixie,sw

655 posted on 09/29/2005 2:27:36 PM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: M. Espinola
btw, don't you get really tired of being RIDICULED as a FOOL by almost everyone here?

free dixie,sw

656 posted on 09/29/2005 2:28:38 PM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: M. Espinola
The White House of 1861 was confronted with a domestic terrorist outbreak such as this nation has never witnessed.

You sir, are the epitome of a stark, raving mad lunatic. No Confederate state flew an airplane sailed a ship into a building killing thousands, bombed a PanAm flight, bombed US embassies, bombed the White House, or performed any act that ANY sane person would deem to be an act of terrorism.

The only act that Confederate states did perform was to exercise their God given right (remember the Declaration?) to alter their form of government viz: under a republican form of government as mandated by the Constitution - the Constitution and legislature being the creation of the people, and the states as parties - lawfully acted in convention to dissolve their membership.

... freedom loving citizens of Northern states not directly scourged by Confederate wrath, nor subdued, would rally with remaining portions of the Federal troops countering the invading hordes of frenzied rednecks, eventually defeating the treasonous enemy within, pushing them back into the swamps of the South.

W. T. Sherman [*SPIT*] wrote Lincoln,

The United States has the right, and also the physical power, to penetrate to every part of the national domain. We will remove and destroy every obstacle - if need be, take every life, every acre of land, every particle of property, everything that to us seems proper.
He advoctates the mass slaughter of every living man, women and child in the Confederacy, and that 'Lincoln more than once referred to it with marks of approval.' It was Bin Laden and the true terroists that attacked America that uttered words similar to that expressed by Sherman [*SPIT*] and Lincoln.

And please don't have an apolectic fit because I posted anything in any way derogatory towards your saint. The truth hurts, but it is the truth.

657 posted on 09/29/2005 2:32:04 PM PDT by 4CJ (Tu ne cede malis!)
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To: stand watie
"are you aware that over 15,000 helpless CSA POWs were MURDERED at Point Lookout DEATH CAMP??"

It's a real shame for the general public you could not have been at Fort Lookout as another captured confederate insurgent.

658 posted on 09/29/2005 2:38:41 PM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
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To: M. Espinola; All
YET another hate-FILLED, STUPID response from FR's very own HATER/BIGOT/FOOL!

head over to DU, "mr.SPIN". they like RACISTS & HATERS over there.

free dixie,sw

659 posted on 09/29/2005 2:47:23 PM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: 4CJ
"The only act that Confederate states did perform was to exercise their God given right.."

Plunging the nation into 4 years of civil war with well over half a million men killed, plus who knows how many wounded - that was the Confederates "God given right"?

You really have an abnormal interpretation of a "God given right" but after reading your endless, demented versions of Civil War history, 'abnormal' is an understatement.

Did your Southern slave masters also have a "God given right" to whip men, women and children and think there would never be reciprocity for their cherished evil of slave labour. Talk about rat filth.

'Crush the traitors'

You have a very disgusting, backward habit each time you type General Sherman's name, LOL, who was one great American general who really understood how to teach treasonous vermin lessons they would never forget! :)

Do you also chew tobacco in the living room? ...sick.

660 posted on 09/29/2005 3:08:54 PM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
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To: stand watie
over 95% of all the PLPOWC guards were white.

I don't suppose you'd have any evidence of this, would you? Because, oddly enough, the Point Lookout website (hardly a place of anti-southern sentiment), lists the regiments that provided guards at the camp, and about a third of them have "Colored" or "Negro" in their names. And the litany of atrocities cited by former prisoners seem particularly slanted toward specifying black guards as their perpetrators.

http://www.plpow.com/Guards.htm

661 posted on 09/29/2005 3:30:09 PM PDT by Heyworth
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To: PeaRidge
You are having the same problem as your other little pal. You are misunderstanding or just simply deceptively asking the wrong question.

Well then let me try it again, Pea. I'll type real slow. Try and follow along.

You claimed that in 1860 the south accounted for 91.4 percent of all imports - $331 million out of $362 million total. If total revenue from tariffs was about $60 million then only about $6 million of that could possibly come from goods destined for the North. Follow me so far?

Now, if we look forward to the fiscal year 1861 and 1862. Total tariff revenue in FY 1861 was almost $50 million, 160% of the total 1860 imports you claim the North imported in 1860. Total tariff revenue in FY 1862 was almost $70 million, over 220% of the total 1860 imports you claim was destined for the North. How could tariff revenue grow at such an astronomical rate when so little was imported in the North? Are you claiming that in one year Northern imports increased 15 fold? Or are you claiming that the North had a 160% to 220% tariff on everything they imported? Or do you have some other explanation?

The data is that the North consumed $31 million in imported goods. What does that have to do with point of collection of tariffs?

Because, Pea, I think that we can safely say that in FY 1861 and FY 1862 the amount of imports coming through New York and Boston and destined for southern consumers approached zero. There was, after all, a rebellion going on and a blockade in place. So every dollar of tariff income collected in the North had to by on goods destined to Northern consumers, wouldn't it? And since you would have us believe that Northern imports were insignificant compared to southern imports pre-rebellion, then how do you account for the massive increase in imports in one year? Something was generating all that tariff revenue. What was it?

662 posted on 09/29/2005 3:55:36 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: stand watie
"(being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)"



All that fanatical baloney over 'dixie' cups? Or is 'dixie' some tootsie who happens a ardent, raving neo-confederate partner in useless blather? LOL! Blithering twit!

663 posted on 09/29/2005 10:48:04 PM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
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To: M. Espinola
like i said before, don't you get tired of almost everybody laughing AT you & being the butt of jokes about racist, hateFILLED,DUMB-bunnies???

fwiw, a lot of the "good 'ole rebs" on FR are PLEASED that you're on the DY's team. the DYs are NOT pleased, but alas for them & the unionist cause, they are stuck with you.

free dixie,sw

664 posted on 09/30/2005 5:29:41 AM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: GodBlessUSA
check this thread out.

pay particular attention to the arrogant, ignorant, anti-southern, prejudice of several of the DY's "team".

some of them are too ignorant to know that what they are parroting is out of the Radical School of northeastern academia. the Radical School is at least socialist, if not Marxist-Lenist/Stalinist in outlook.

free dixie,sw

665 posted on 09/30/2005 5:36:54 AM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: Gianni
Tell me, what is the difference between a "battle planner" and a tactical commander?

There's a substantial difference between planning for a battle and executing that plan. Isn't that obvious? Your inability to distinguish that difference helps explain why you also seem to equate competence with brilliance .

How much more remedial attention will you require before actually providing us with a specific example of Granny's brilliance as a tactical commander during the Seven Days Battles in early 1862?

666 posted on 09/30/2005 6:16:11 AM PDT by mac_truck (Aide toi et dieu l’aidera)
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To: mac_truck; Non-Sequitur

Lee totally screwed up the artillery prep before Pickett's Charge, leaving it entirely to a 25(?)-year old. Instead of shooting directly at the Union line, resulting in under and over shots completely missing their targets, the shooting should have been at angles, giving under and over shots a much better chance of hitting something. And why the hell did the attack start in the afternoon? First thing in the morning is best for that sort of thing.


667 posted on 09/30/2005 6:56:17 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan
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To: Grand Old Partisan
did you bother to read what you posted???

as an old "redleg",i.e. former ARNGUS artillery officer for 2 years, your post makes no sense, given the primative sort of artillery available in 1860s.

free dixie,sw

668 posted on 09/30/2005 9:48:53 AM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: stand watie; mac_truck; Non-Sequitur

Your post was actually reasonable this time, so I will respond. A diagram would make it easier to explain, but here goes:

The artillery should not have been directed perpendicular to the Union line but at less of an angle, say 70 degrees, with half the cannons pointing to the left of perpendicular and half to the right. This way, a much greater length of the Union line would have been in the path of each shot, giving over and under shots more chance to hit the Union line. It is precisely because of the primitive sort of artillery available in the 1860s that this tactic should have been adopted. Competent artillery officers did it all the time during the Napoleonic Wars and the Civil War.




669 posted on 09/30/2005 10:01:10 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan
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To: Grand Old Partisan

"Since at least 90% of imports in 1860 entered through the North, it stands to reason that at least 90% of imports went to the North."

What makes you think they stayed there?


670 posted on 09/30/2005 12:21:04 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: Non-Sequitur
Virginia ratified the constitution per the terms stated therein.

Your reasoning, that you can ignore all other aspects of the ratification itself, would make any judge, lawyer, court clerk, legislator, governor, legal aide, janitor at a courthouse, screaming lunatic at an insane asylum, et al laugh their ass off, as it has done for me so many times in the past.

Enjoy your stupidity, I certainly have.

671 posted on 09/30/2005 12:28:35 PM PDT by Gianni
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To: Grand Old Partisan; PeaRidge
"it stands to reason"

Translation: "It is flatly untrue"

672 posted on 09/30/2005 12:29:50 PM PDT by Gianni
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To: stand watie
You must get a grip on reality. If that prospect is even remotely possible?

Are you heading down the same dead end road as this 'former' raving madman.

673 posted on 09/30/2005 12:33:46 PM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
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To: mac_truck; 4CJ
Nonsense. Virgina's ratification of the USC is binding on the other States. Just like their ratification of the USC is binding on Virginia.

You've finally got me. I have not the first clue in how to respond to this. I can't even understand what it is your saying anymore. You've gone beyond hallucination into the realm of bizzarroworld.

There is nobody from the founding era to the present day, outside of mac_truck, who would (or could) make a statement like that.

674 posted on 09/30/2005 12:34:46 PM PDT by Gianni
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To: Grand Old Partisan

The problem is that you are the one that is confused because you are too busy rebutting and not thinking.

During 1860 the imports of the South were valued at $331 million.

The North consumed $31 million in imports.

The total value of imports into the US that year was $354 million.


675 posted on 09/30/2005 12:36:08 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: Grand Old Partisan

The problem is that you are the one that is confused because you are too busy rebutting and not thinking.

During 1860 the imports of the South were valued at $331 million.

The North consumed $31 million in imports.

The total value of imports into the US that year was $354 million.


676 posted on 09/30/2005 12:36:11 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: M. Espinola; 4CJ; PeaRidge; stainlessbanner; stand watie
It's a real shame for the general public you could not have been at Fort Lookout as another captured confederate insurgent.

Bump for showing of true colors.

Just hasn't been the same since abandonment by the Funky Bunch.

677 posted on 09/30/2005 12:38:24 PM PDT by Gianni
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To: mac_truck
[G] Tell me, what is the difference between a "battle planner" and a tactical commander?

[mac] There's a substantial difference between planning for a battle and executing that plan. Isn't that obvious? Your inability to distinguish that difference helps explain why you also seem to equate competence with brilliance .

Are you talking about the difference between a tactician and a field commander?

You're making fun of me? What a joke. It's allright to cry, little mac. We understand.

678 posted on 09/30/2005 12:42:45 PM PDT by Gianni
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To: mac_truck
How much more remedial attention will you require before actually providing us with a specific example of Granny's brilliance as a tactical commander during the Seven Days Battles in early 1862?

I don't get it once again. Lee devised a plan of battle that, even though horribly executed, achieved all objectives and was essentially a total success in the face of overwhelming odds.

Now I have to explain why that is a success? Thank goodness you're not involved in today's WOT.

679 posted on 09/30/2005 12:44:18 PM PDT by Gianni
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To: PeaRidge

Why in the world would imports destined for, say Georgia, go overland from Boston rather than be delivered to the perfectly good ports in Georgia? Come one now, you are grasping at straws.


680 posted on 09/30/2005 12:47:24 PM PDT by Grand Old Partisan
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To: PeaRidge

You were going to post a link to a source other than MSN, remember? You said the figures were from the U.S. Treasury, so post the link.


681 posted on 09/30/2005 12:48:42 PM PDT by Grand Old Partisan
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To: Gianni
"Bump for showing of true colors."

Don't mention it chump, it goes double for all anti-American, neo-confederate cultists.

682 posted on 09/30/2005 12:50:14 PM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
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To: Gianni
Lee devised a plan of battle that, even though horribly executed, achieved all objectives and was essentially a total success in the face of overwhelming odds.

In other words Lee accomplished his strategic objectives during the Seven Days Battles even though he suffered a series of tactical defeats throughout, is that right Professore?

683 posted on 09/30/2005 12:56:52 PM PDT by mac_truck (Aide toi et dieu l’aidera)
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To: Non-Sequitur

"You claimed that in 1860 the south accounted for 91.4 percent of all imports -"

No I did not. Let me type very slowly for you.

I said ....."During 1860 the imports of the South were valued at $331 million.

You are jumping to the conclusion that all "imports" were European.

It wasn't, and that is why the rest of your post is junk.


684 posted on 09/30/2005 1:38:45 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: Non-Sequitur

"Now, if we look forward to the fiscal year 1861 and 1862."

You sound like quite the historian/economist.

By the way, your tariff revenue figures are wrong.

YEAR............Yours................Actual
1860.............$60.................$53.8
1861.............$50.................$39.6
1862.............$70.................$49.1

"Something was generating all that tariff revenue"

It was called a war.


685 posted on 09/30/2005 1:58:05 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: Gianni

True "Blue" colors.


686 posted on 09/30/2005 2:08:29 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: PeaRidge
By the way, your tariff revenue figures are wrong.

My figures came from Lincoln's messages to Congress in 1862 and 1863. Where did your figures come from?

But regardless where your figures come from they still point to a disconnect in your original arguement. Since we can safely say that the imports destined for southern consumers dropped to zero, then can we agree that all tariffs income was collected on imports destined for Northern consumers? Yet the tariff revenue you posted for 1862 dropped only $4 million. Imports should have dropped by 90%, right? So why didn't tariff revenue drop to nothing? Oh, I forget. "It was called the war," you said. So tell us, Pea. What did the North suddenly import in such massive quantities as a result of the war that they increased their import totals by 700% or 800% or more? It was called a war.

And what were all those extra imports that

687 posted on 09/30/2005 2:15:45 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Grand Old Partisan
"Why in the world would imports destined for, say Georgia, go overland from Boston rather than be delivered to the perfectly good ports in Georgia?"

They didn't. They largely went by water.

"Come one now, you are grasping at straws."

Cut the dumb and goofy act. This has been explained to you a dozen times before. But here is a nice little link that may help you.

http://post.economics.harvard.edu/hier/2005papers/HIER2073.pdf

Here's another: http://www.eastrivernyc.org/ecommerce/shipping.shtm

So, it is easily seen that point of taxation has nothing to do with point of consumption. Your entire construct of Northern dominance based on volume of import consumption is totally invalid.

Imagine it this way dumbbell.......New York harbor was firing off all these packet steamers like the little cannon balls you were telling stand watie about. Get the picture?
688 posted on 09/30/2005 2:19:58 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: PeaRidge
No I did not. Let me type very slowly for you.

Yes you did, Pea, since I took your figures. You claimed that $331 million out of $362 million in total imports were destined for southern consumers. Reply 623. Look it up yourself.

I said ....."During 1860 the imports of the South were valued at $331 million. You are jumping to the conclusion that all "imports" were European.

Where did I make that connection? Regardless of the source, you claimed $331 million out of $362 million total imports were destined for southern consumers. Your claim, not mine.

689 posted on 09/30/2005 2:20:13 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur

I commend your patience with Pea Ridge.


690 posted on 09/30/2005 2:25:12 PM PDT by Grand Old Partisan
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To: M. Espinola
You have a very disgusting, backward habit each time you type General Sherman's name, LOL, who was one great American general who really understood how to teach treasonous vermin lessons they would never forget! :) Do you also chew tobacco in the living room? ...sick.
I have your telegram saying the President had read my letter [excerpted above] and thought it should be published. …[T]hey [Confederates] will gradually relax and finally submit to men who profess, like myself, to fight for but one single purpose, viz to sustain a government capable of vindicating its just and rightful authority, independent of n*****s, cotton, money or any earthly interest.
That's your hero - mass murderer, a white supremacist - Sherman [*SPIT*]. It speaks volumes that you venerate the man.
691 posted on 09/30/2005 2:26:27 PM PDT by 4CJ (Tu ne cede malis!)
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To: Grand Old Partisan

"You were going to post a link to a source other than MSN, remember? You said the figures were from the U.S. Treasury, so post the link."

Certainly.

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/amlaw/lwcg.html

Follow the Historical Documents link on the left side of the homepage, then follow the link labeled A Century of Lawmaking for a New Nation: U.S. Congressional Documents and Debates 1774-1873.

The information is in the US Treasury Report section of President Buchanan's Message and Documents also known as the State of the Union speech. It requires some research.

Otherwise, you'll need to look for the information in print form at a U.S. Federal Depository Library; see topic #3 on the FAQ page for a link to a list of locations.


692 posted on 09/30/2005 2:34:16 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: M. Espinola; All
yet ANOTHER ignorant, SILLY comment from FR's laughingstock-in-chief.

face it, Mr SPIN, everyone thinks you're a DUNCE of the 1st rank.

free dixie,sw

693 posted on 09/30/2005 2:36:14 PM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: Gianni; All
as usual, the FOOL-in-CHIEF, "m.eSPINola", shows all & sundry that he's

1.a FOOL

2. a moron

3. a hater

4. UNteachable and

5.the principle target of mirth to persons on FR who have BRAINS.

PITY he doesn't head over to DU to be one of the brighter DU-dummies.

free dixie,sw

694 posted on 09/30/2005 2:44:41 PM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: M. Espinola; All
yet ANOTHER post from FR's resident FOOL & HATER!

free dixie,sw

695 posted on 09/30/2005 2:45:55 PM PDT by stand watie (being a damnyankee is no better than being a racist. it is a LEARNED prejudice against dixie.)
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To: stand watie
"yet ANOTHER post from FR's resident FOOL & HATER!"

I was just anout to mention that to you - Knock it off nutso :)

696 posted on 09/30/2005 2:53:49 PM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
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To: PeaRidge
So the south, with one quarter the population, consumed, per capita, 40 times more imports than did the north? What were they importing in such vast quantities?

I've tried to find someplace that supports your numbers, but am unable to do so. The closest thing I've found, the civilwarhome.com website, shows numbers that are almost the complete opposite of yours:

"As to imports, the total for the twenty-five states reporting $335,650,153. Eight Southern states could make up only $14,654,129 of the total. Again Arkansas, Tennessee, and Mississippi are missing. Of the Southern total Louisiana had $11,960,869 of the imports, showing clearly the importance of New Orleans."

Please, a source for your numbers.

697 posted on 09/30/2005 2:58:13 PM PDT by Heyworth
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To: PeaRidge

There is no link named "Historical Documents" on that page. Please post a link to the website you cite, rather than lead me, inaccurately, on a chase.


698 posted on 09/30/2005 3:06:55 PM PDT by Grand Old Partisan
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To: Grand Old Partisan
I commend your patience with Pea Ridge.

Max Ehrman said, "Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story." That helps a lot when dealing with the southron contingent.

699 posted on 09/30/2005 3:11:15 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Grand Old Partisan; Non-Sequitur
I've got what he's talking about, although I can't find anything saying what he says they're saying and my eyes are starting to hurt. But here...


700 posted on 09/30/2005 3:17:39 PM PDT by Heyworth
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