[faireturn]

I've been following, as best I can, all this conversation about the many nuances of what 'we' means in terms of individual v. societal responsibility with respect to that era. It's all rather interesting, and it serves, I think, to illustrate the complexities involved in the moral issues raised by the experiences of that time.

Those same issues [and I see them as constitutional, not moral issues] are still with us today.

But, if that era serves to bring any lessons to us today (and I think it brings several), the most important lesson it brings is that you do not go to war only as a last resort.

That machiavellian style option is in effect today, in Iraq. Our government made the decision [constitutionally] to wage preventive war there to 'call the bluff' of islamic fundamentalists.

Had the allies called Hitler's bluff and gone to war in 1938 in response to the 'Munich crisis' Europe might have been spared much of the agony of the following six years, and a lot of people, who never even saw life, might be walking around today. I suspect (and I know of no way to prove this) that the desire to avoid trouble has probably brought as much trouble to the world as has any other calculation.

We are in the midst of finding out whether we can prevent a holocast based in the middle east by calling Islam's bluff, and establishing our own base of operations.

Let's hope it works. -- We may have bet our way of life on calling that bluff.

[YHAOS]

“Those same issues [and I see them as constitutional, not moral issues] are still with us today.”

Yes, and a very sizable segment of our society (a very large part of what constitutes ‘we’) has come to the judgment that ‘we’ are not going to permit another wholesale slaughter of Jews. That’s a moral issue, but the judgment involves matters of public policy and of its implementation, and these matters do include at least the possibility of constitutional issues.

“We are in the midst of finding out whether we can prevent a holocast based in the middle east by calling Islam's bluff, and establishing our own base of operations.”

“Let's hope it works. -- We may have bet our way of life on calling that bluff.”

If there was ever a thought Islamic lunatics are bluffing, the sight of very large jets flying at very high speeds into very tall buildings should have dispelled that notion. Whether we confronted the Islamics four years ago, or had waited until they begin to slaughter us by the millions instead of the thousands, our ‘way of life’ is at stake, and has been for fifteen hundred years when these maniacs first came storming out of their desert stronghold.