DETROIT FEELS THE HEAT: Big 3 fleet sales hid Oct. retail collapse

Automotive News ^ | 11/14/05 | By Mary Connelly

[reagan_fanatic]

Chrysler ought to be ashamed for selling vehicles as bad as their minivans. Poorly made, overpriced and 9 times out of 10 whenever I see a trail of blue exaust smoke going down the road, you can be sure it is coming out of a Caravan's tailpipe.

[eraser2005]

The Taurus is dead already... there should be no 2006 models available until they come out of fleets...

The Fusion is its direct replacement, and is getting very good reviews - think a blend of Camry and Accord.
USAToday's review And the base model can be had for ~$1300 less than a comparably equipped Camry, $3000 less than an Accord, and a little more than a Sonata.... (all per truedelta.com)

[Aquinasfan]

Probably had a lot to do with gas prices. Last month would have been a good month to buy a big car.

[Obadiah]

...9 times out of 10 whenever I see a trail of blue exhaust smoke going down the road, you can be sure it is coming out of a Caravan's tailpipe.

I thought I was the only one who noticed this. Dead on, accurate. Get behind a Chrysler minivan and it almost always chugs blue smoke.

I understand how a car blows blue smoke, but what is it about Chrysler minivans that so many of them - over many production years - spew blue exhaust smoke? Valves? Rings? What? And, why in the world would they not correct something so obviously flawed? But hey, if that's what they want to sell, then don't come begging me to buy your defective product!

[Obadiah]

Wow. That IS a beautiful car.

[LdSentinal]

Cadillac is GM's best division I think.

[motzman]

Here's a couple of snippets from Motor Trend's Miata vs. Solstice review (Dec. 2005)

"GM can take pride in what it's accomplished. The Solstice is a real sports car and no the topless poseur enthusiasts feared. It'll sell on looks and value alone. But if the Solstice is solid runner, the MX-5 is a fleet-footed sprinter, delivering a more athletic, lithe drive in most every respect."

"The MX-5's engine is smoother and happier to rev than the Solstice's. The MX-5 has a more communicative chassis, and it feels every one of those 400 pounds lighter and more responsive than the Pontiac. This (GT MX-5)...won every performance contest, although the margins were small. The Solstice's top design is fussier than it needs to be; the MX-5's couldn't be simpler. The Mazda's interior is of higher quality and beautifully packaged. While the Solstice's cabin is comfy and racy looking, it suffers from a dearth of storage, a few ergonomic hiccups, and cheapoplasticity."

Comparably equipped, there's less than a thousand dollar difference between the two. The Solstice is neck-snappingly good looking. With better engineering, Pontiac could have laid the smack down on the MX-5.

But they didn't.

Again.

[38special]

Not my Ford Lightning buddy. Sorry.

[PAR35]

I will never need to buy a new car.

Don't be surprised when a gasket goes on the engine of the Buick. Motors aren't exactly a strong suit for Buick.

[1FASTGLOCK45]

Hey Eraser,
I've been thinking of getting a Ford Expedition, I'm NO FAN of fords, i actually hate them. The only reason i've been thinking of getting one is because the resale value sinks like a rock, the Expedition has been out for a while and so by now they have got to have the bugs worked out.

If i get a used late model onei can get it dirt cheap and drive the hell out of it like i do my current car, a salvaged subaru which i've put close to 75,000 miles on it with NO Problems,
i believe in getting my moneys worth out of my car. My current car has been driven very hard and is jap it is foreign after all and maybe is why it's held out, i've been wanting for it to die and thats why i've driven it so hard, (try over 100mph high speed mountain driving, fast take offs, and just pound on that gas pedal) So i don't care if the price of gas is over 3.00 gallon)
I'm not trying to brag but the big 3 should learn a lesson from the japs, a car that's got over 70,000 on it and i still haven't changed the brakepads (i've got all the maintenance reciepts).
This is the only thing that has kept me from getting a newer american car, ( i do own a american truck i never drive, so i'm not bashing american).

I am really leaning to a Ford Expedition though, reasons being: Safety-Big car-, comfort. The jap car is just too small and uncomfortable, and since i'm getting old, i want something where i can relax and have an automatic car.
I hope the expedition works out when i get one, the other car i'm considering is the Chevy Tahoe.

[Recon Dad]

Oh, you folks are making me feel like crap. I just picked a Town & Country as my new company car! The Ford I've been driving for 100,000 miles hasen't been the best. I was looking forward to the new one now I'm on a downer.

[toddst]

I would encourage you to look at the Chevy Tahoe. I have my fourth GMC Yukon XL 2WD (were called Suburbans earlier) and they are wonderful. Just bought my new one the end of June and it's better than any earlier ones. Also gets good mileage on the road (at legal speeds) generally about 23 mpg.

[TheGunny]

Cams and Corollas! I just bought one:o)

[Chuzzlewit]

1983 Toyota Corolla.. paid $300... worth: priceless.. purhased in 2000... spnt only about $500 on tires and repairs,so far... 269,000 miles... still runnin strong.. wonder if Detroit can make a car that good?

[RightWhale]

GM carefully engineers their products to last one mile past warranty.

[TheGunny]

I doubt it, the funny thing is that...Im from detroit. I hate unions and what they are/have done for the industry.

[Obadiah]

Solstice is neck-snappingly good looking. With better engineering, Pontiac could have laid the smack down on the MX-5.

And this is exactly why American auto makers fail. It is why the public doesn't buy their wares anymore. The Solstice is a great example. As you mentioned it is gorgeous, but then they - as usual - put cheap plastic crap in the interior, and then skimp on the engineering angles! WHY??? Why do that? Why do they constantly hit a grounder double when a little more effort would be a grand slam? It certainly isn't because they don't have the know-how.

Man, that is just so perplexing.

[Obadiah]

Ah, don't be bummed. They're not that bad. In fact, truth be told, we're still hanging on to our 98 Grand Voyager.

For all my complaining, ours really hasn't given us any problems. And, I don't think it's blowing blue smoke, but we don't put a lot of miles on that vehicle and I maintain it pretty meticulously.

[38special]

My condolences

[motzman]

And it's a shame. If I was in the market, I'd definately test-drive the Solstice, but I'd also take out the MX-5. And, being a former owner of an MX-5 (1990), I know I'd go for the Mazda. Not only is it a better overall car, I wouldn't have to worry about quality problems, plus it will hold it's value much better than the Pontiac.

But, there's also more problems. Why did Pontiac wait so long to build this car? If Mazda never made the Miata, I seriously doubt Pontiac or any other US automaker would have. That's a hugh (and series) problem.

And, you have an existing fantasitc benchmark to aim at (the Miata). You don't make a car as good as the benchmark, you blow it away!

The Big Three (GM especially) deserve the trouncing they're getting!!