Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Study finds Canadian-U.S. heart survival disparity (Healthcare)
Reuters | Nov 28, 2005

Posted on 11/28/2005 2:24:27 PM PST by proud_yank

CHICAGO (Reuters) - U.S. heart failure patients have a better short-term survival rate after hospital treatment than do those in Canada, perhaps because of more intensive initial treatment, a study said on Monday.

But the disparity found 30 days after treatment disappears in a year, perhaps because Canada's system provides better access to follow-up care and prescription drugs for the elderly, researchers at the University of Toronto said.

Congestive heart failure occurs when the heart cannot pump enough blood through the body, for reasons that can include narrowed arteries, high blood pressure and previous heart attacks. Patients, who become short of breath and easily tired, are often treated with drugs, put on modified diets and told to rest.

In a study published in this week's Archives of Internal Medicine, the researchers found that the death rate among heart failure patients in U.S. hospitals after 30 days was 8.9 percent compared to 10.7 percent for similar patients in Canada. While the report described that difference as significant, it found that after one year nearly a third of the patients in both groups had died.

The study involved thousands of older patients in both countries who were hospitalized from 1998 to 2001.

The authors noted that the two countries have different health care systems -- the U.S. one being market-controlled with limited government intervention while the universal single-payer Canadian system covers most physician and hospital services as well as prescription drugs for most people over 65.

The authors said earlier studies have also found that short-term advantages enjoyed by U.S. heart attack and surgery patients compared with those in Canada were lost in the long run.

"It is plausible that better short-term outcomes in the United States may relate to the intensity of hospital care, and the similar long-term outcomes between the countries may reflect better access in Canada to outpatient follow-up and prescription drugs," the report said.

The United States is just starting up a prescription drug program under Medicare, the health care system which covers people at age 65.

"Further studies are needed to explore the reasons underlying this difference in outcomes and to gain additional insights to improve the care and outcomes of heart failure patients in both countries," the study concluded.


TOPICS: Canada; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: canada; freemarket; healthcare; medicare; nationalhealthcare; socialism; socializedmedicine
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-48 next last
It is amazing (though not surprising) that Reuters would even give any credibility to socialized healthcare. i.e. But the disparity found 30 days after treatment disappears in a year, perhaps because Canada's system provides better access to follow-up care and prescription drugs for the elderly, researchers at the University of Toronto said.

Now, lets look at the only facts presented in this article.

..the death rate among heart failure patients in U.S. hospitals after 30 days was 8.9 percent compared to 10.7 percent for similar patients in Canada.

What difference does 'universal access' mean to those who are already dead?

Here is a link sent to me this morning. The question that should be asked is "If socialized healthcare is so great, why is there a website like this that exists?"
1 posted on 11/28/2005 2:24:28 PM PST by proud_yank
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: proud_yank

the other lie perpetrated by this study is that it ignores the number of the Canadians who die waiting for access to medical treatment.


2 posted on 11/28/2005 2:33:15 PM PST by ghost of nixon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Temple Owl

ping


3 posted on 11/28/2005 2:34:20 PM PST by Tribune7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: proud_yank

maybe it's just harder to tell when the Canadians are alive : )


4 posted on 11/28/2005 2:36:39 PM PST by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: proud_yank

The article also states that after a year, nearly a third of all patients, American and Canadian, had died. Is that just a rumor?


5 posted on 11/28/2005 2:38:59 PM PST by eddie65
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: proud_yank

Socialized medicine is for Hillary Clinton, Karl Marx, Lenin and Stalin. Need an appendectomy? Fill out Form 123456789-Sucker, then get in line. The more government gets involved in medicine, the lower the quality of health care. The United States has the best health care in the world, despite attempts by Democrats and other socialists to wreck it. They have learned nothing from the inevitable failures of the USSR and other socialist countries.


6 posted on 11/28/2005 2:40:28 PM PST by pleikumud
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ghost of nixon
the other lie perpetrated by this study is that it ignores the number of the Canadians who die waiting for access to medical treatment.

How many is that? Or perhaps that too is a myth.

7 posted on 11/28/2005 2:40:41 PM PST by Snowyman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: proud_yank
"If socialized healthcare is so great, why is there a website like this that exists?"

And the answer is. Politics.

8 posted on 11/28/2005 2:42:48 PM PST by Snowyman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: eddie65

True, but that is the same percentage taken from each group. Both could be affected by the same variable in that respect, but in the end we come out ahead.


9 posted on 11/28/2005 2:44:21 PM PST by proud_yank (Experience Tolerance: tell a liberal you own guns and drive an SUV!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: proud_yank

I wasn't clear on that so I found a link.

http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/health/feeds/hscout/2005/11/28/hscout529340.html

It appears that the +-32% death rate after 1 year is for all patients. My linked article also says:
"In conclusion, we found that HF patients hospitalized in the United States had significantly better short-term mortality but equivalent long-term mortality compared with a sample of HF patients hospitalized in Canada," the authors wrote.

"Further studies are needed to explore the reasons underlying this difference in outcomes and to gain additional insights to improve the care and outcomes of HF patients in both countries."


10 posted on 11/28/2005 2:51:40 PM PST by Sally Golightly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Snowyman

I am not necessarily opposed to having a basic 'safety net' in terms of something like health care (I do NOT mean this in a socialist sense, or the usual 'universal access' type BS), but the trying to have the govt control it and pick up the tab is insane. Especially by not allowing a private system.

'Politics' is absolutely right. Liberals love to have 100% control and have people dependent on the gubmint! What better recipe for staying in power?

On the other hand, Canada's universal healthcare system does generate lots of income for American doctors in border states.


11 posted on 11/28/2005 2:52:03 PM PST by proud_yank (Experience Tolerance: tell a liberal you own guns and drive an SUV!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: proud_yank

"But the disparity found 30 days after treatment disappears in a year, perhaps because Canada's system provides better access to follow-up care and prescription drugs for the elderly, researchers at the University of Toronto said."

Or perhaps it's because within a year, most of those have already died from being on the waiting list without treatment.


12 posted on 11/28/2005 2:52:04 PM PST by flashbunny (To err is human. But to really screw something up, have the government try to fix it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: proud_yank

This study only covers those who recieve treatment for heart problems. I wonder how much the long term numbers are effected by the ammount of triage the different systems must apply. Canadians are suffering a lot of shortages in healthcare that could lead the medical staff to limit the available care only to those with the best chances of long term survival. At the same time, US hospitals with much greater resources and profit incentives treat even the worst cases. In the short term the US hospitals better care is evident, but in the long term the higher 'quality' of the patients treated by Canada allows them to catch up in the survival statistics.


13 posted on 11/28/2005 2:53:06 PM PST by Flying Circus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: flashbunny
perhaps because Canada's system provides better access to follow-up care and prescription drugs for the elderly

That could be true, except for the fact that the same study:

...found that after one year nearly a third of the patients in both groups had died
14 posted on 11/28/2005 2:58:25 PM PST by proud_yank (Experience Tolerance: tell a liberal you own guns and drive an SUV!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: proud_yank
But the disparity found 30 days after treatment disappears in a year, perhaps because

Yada yada yada. -Where do they get these morons?

The disparity converges because all of those in very bad initial condition are already dead in Canada.

Come to a Florida cardiology office and you see plenty of Canadians combining a trip to warmers climes with their medical treatment.

15 posted on 11/28/2005 2:58:30 PM PST by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: proud_yank
The authors said earlier studies have also found that short-term advantages enjoyed by U.S. heart attack and surgery patients compared with those in Canada were lost in the long run.

Total Reuters manipulated language.

They can't bring themselves to say something like

"while long-term survival rates were similar, the American health-care system has a decided advantage over the Canadian system in critical cardiac care."

Instead, they have to word the article so that it's more like "each system has its advantages".

16 posted on 11/28/2005 2:59:54 PM PST by denydenydeny ("As a Muslim of course I am a terrorist"--Sheikh Omar Brooks, quoted in the London Times 8/7/05)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Flying Circus
Based on my link in post #1 I would still disagree with you on long term care. I don't really have anything quantitative to base that on, but judging by the 'waiting time' site and the fact that it even exists, I find it hard to bite. Hearing some of the healthcare stories from people here makes me very skeptical of universal healthcare.
17 posted on 11/28/2005 3:02:50 PM PST by proud_yank (Experience Tolerance: tell a liberal you own guns and drive an SUV!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: bill1952
Come to a Florida cardiology office and you see plenty of Canadians combining a trip to warmers climes with their medical treatment.

I don't doubt it. A friend of my father's took a job in Ont., after a few months he started having chest pains, saw a doctor there who told him to 'get some bed rest' (very common cure-all). A second trip, 'get some bed rest'. He came back to the US, saw his old doctor in MI, within two days they had him on the table for open heart surgery as his heart was about to fail.

But, in the end, I am sure that he wasn't about to die. It was merely corporate propaganda so that the big, evil health insurance companies could turn a profit and a greedy doctor could accumulate more wealth. /s o
18 posted on 11/28/2005 3:08:35 PM PST by proud_yank (Experience Tolerance: tell a liberal you own guns and drive an SUV!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: denydenydeny

LOL, thats why I posted it! Then again, it'd be hard to push a liberal agenda if they would word things like that.


19 posted on 11/28/2005 3:09:50 PM PST by proud_yank (Experience Tolerance: tell a liberal you own guns and drive an SUV!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: proud_yank
...Canada's system provides better access to follow-up care and prescription drugs...

Need to keep the subjects alive and paying them extortionary taxes...
20 posted on 11/28/2005 3:11:54 PM PST by VOA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-48 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson