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America's illegal immigrants
The Economist Print Edition ^

Posted on 12/01/2005 10:42:12 AM PST by Alex Marko

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To: Alex Marko
All told, there are an estimated 11m "illegal aliens". Many Americans do not mind.

Most likely because those are the Americans who are employing/exploiting illegal aliens.

21 posted on 12/01/2005 11:15:24 AM PST by DumpsterDiver
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To: Alex Marko
The article doesn't mention the drain on the public treasury illegals represent. The reason being, for that, the illegal advocates have no answer, since they admit that each illegal cost the taxpayers $89,000.

The FR pro-illegal Quislings shrink from any questions about the public cost of illegals as does Count Dracula from sunlight.

22 posted on 12/01/2005 11:15:48 AM PST by Plutarch
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To: Alex Marko
They wash dishes more cheaply than locals would, benefiting anybody who ever goes to a restaurant. Without Mexicans, vegetables would go unpicked and nursing homes would be filthy.

Thanks for posting too bad it's full of so much BS like that above.

I swear that many in my area hire illegals because they know the illegals will follow orders blindly without questioning the possible code violations involved. And WHEN CAUGHT, the employer is able to blame away any descrepancies. After all, the offending parties are long gone and we must feel sorry for the "poor Mexicans". A neighbor did just that and blamed the Mexicans he hired for the contruction of the fence that took a quarter acre of my Mom's property. He said "the Mexicans" told him they found a property line corner marker and fenced to it. It was a lie, he was just trying to steal property for a vineyard and hoped we wouldn't notice. Most likely any reputable fence builder would have hesitated at putting a fence in that area. Meanwhile, we had to pay for a survey to reestablish our property line boundary, so the surveying companies get more business too.

Not only do these owners get away with not paying withholding, taxes, etc., they have a scape goat for other illegal actions. Meanwhile the county officials in charge of code violations just look the other way.

23 posted on 12/01/2005 11:23:24 AM PST by tertiary01
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To: PRND21

I don't believe that though. I seriously doubt that 72% of Republicans believe that, and if they do, then this is not the party for me.


24 posted on 12/01/2005 11:40:15 AM PST by SC33
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To: Alex Marko

"The current immigration system isn’t “broken” or “failed;” it's just unenforced. Not unenforceable, mind you, just ignored. Americans don’t want so-called “immigration reform, they want strict enforcement of immigration laws, an end to illegal immigration and amnesties, and an end to the rampant lawlessness engendered by politically-correct refusal to enforce our civil laws.

There's free food, subsidized housing, reduced mortgages, food stamps, free medical and education, reduced tuition and suspension of out of state tuition fees--all of this is your reward for breaking the law, but only if you aren't already an American. If you're an American, forget about it; you have to pay your way through life. This is your reward for obeying the law.

Americans have to pay full price for their education, medical care, homes, and on top of that, our taxes go to pay for criminals--that is what illegal aliens are, make no mistake: they are criminals--who get all of that for little or even for nothing. This makes it possible--even easy--for them to work for $10 an hour or less. How many of us could afford to work for peanuts IF our homes, medical, food and education were all paid for? I know that the bulk of our bills are student loans and medical; take away those bills and you take away 90% of our debt. And I know too many people my age in the same boat...so calling it a national epidemic is probably an understatement.

After all, we're the real Americans...that means we have to pay for things that immigrants--including/especially illegals--get for free so long as they have a pulse and a sob story."


25 posted on 12/01/2005 11:41:07 AM PST by sheana
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To: sheana; nicmarlo

bttt!

nic - excellent post #25


26 posted on 12/01/2005 12:17:04 PM PST by Borax Queen
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To: PRND21

Yeah right. I must be reading different polls


27 posted on 12/01/2005 12:21:28 PM PST by Sterco
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To: sheana; Borax Queen
we're the real Americans...that means we have to pay for things that immigrants--including/especially illegals--get for free so long as they have a pulse and a sob story."

Excellent post!!

28 posted on 12/01/2005 12:23:28 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Plutarch
The FR pro-illegal Quislings shrink from any questions about the public cost of illegals as does Count Dracula from sunlight.

BTTT!

29 posted on 12/01/2005 12:25:30 PM PST by janetgreen
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To: sheana

Sheana here is a prime example of what your post emulates so perfectly.

I, an American from birth, get crashed into by a drunk. I have, and paid for, health insurance, there is an Auto insurance policy purchased by another American on the vehicle I was in, my purchased Auto insurance policy applies, there is Auto insurance policy purchased for the car that crashed into us, and my wife, who was not even there when it happened (nor was it our vehicle), gets sued by medical providers and has a judgment granted against her paycheck because insurance companies are playing their little lawyer games.

All the while taxes taken out of her paycheck pay the medical bills of illegal aliens that never paid a dime in Taxes or for any insurance policy at all.

I offer this as a simple example of how much truth your posts contains....its like a born American is to be punished simply for being born here instead of somewhere else. Sickening it is!


30 posted on 12/01/2005 12:29:15 PM PST by BlueStateDepression
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To: Alex Marko

the president's speach was smoke and mirrors.

I don't think any sensible person believed a word the president said on the border issue.


31 posted on 12/01/2005 12:49:50 PM PST by ckilmer
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To: ckilmer

But, but he had to say something!!! He couldn't very well just ignore it when so many are so POed. (sarc)


32 posted on 12/01/2005 12:54:47 PM PST by Sterco
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To: Alex Marko
George Bush has promoted a sensible immigration plan

LOL, his plan is anything but sensible.

33 posted on 12/01/2005 1:22:24 PM PST by Marine Inspector (Government is not the solution to our problem; Government is the problem)
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To: BlueStateDepression
According to the Pew Hispanic Centre, nearly 500,000 unskilled migrants arrive every year to do the kind of strenuous, low-paid jobs that Americans shun. Yet the United States issues only 5,000 visas a year for unskilled foreigners seeking year-round work.

What a bunch of clap-trap and not a word about the costs of illegal immigration-- dumbed-down schools, balkanized neighborhoods, crowded emergency rooms, and third-world diseases which were once though eradicated.

So because the demand for visas is around 500,000 and the supply around 5,000, is the author suggesting we are supposed to automatically increase the supply to accomodate the demand? Does anyone but a nimrod doubt that if we did so, the demand would increase to 1, 2 or 10 million annually?

As a soverign country, do we not have the right to pick and choose the sources, quality and, yes, even numbers of our legal immigrants? Does Mexico, with many neighborhoods devoid of working age population, have no obligation to grow its own economy and provide jobs? If so, maybe some of their emmigrants should be shipped to Europe, home of this news rag, where they can displace North African Muslims and other unemployables on that continent.

As for myself, if America needs more immigrants (and I think we do), I'd rather see a few more from places like Korea, the Philippines, India and Taiwan who have shown a demonstrated willingness to assimilate into American society and learn and respect our language and culture and a few less from places which have, with some noteworthy exceptions, simply sought to replace it with the third-world cultures from whence they came.

34 posted on 12/01/2005 2:17:05 PM PST by Vigilanteman (crime would drop like a sprung trapdoor if we brought back good old-fashioned hangings)
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To: Alex Marko
The illegals undoubtedly boost the economy.

BS. Illegal aliens don't boost the economy. Workers boost the economy. And those workers can and should be comprised solely of Americans and legal immigrants.

They wash dishes more cheaply than locals would, benefiting anybody who ever goes to a restaurant.

Yes, illegal aliens do drive down wages. And the money saved by restaurant owners who employ illegal aliens go into the owner's pockets, benefitting solely the owners.

Without Mexicans, vegetables would go unpicked and nursing homes would be filthy.

Completely, totally, 100% untrue.

35 posted on 12/01/2005 2:29:36 PM PST by judgeandjury
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To: sheana

Well said!


36 posted on 12/01/2005 2:29:45 PM PST by djreece ("... Until He leads justice to victory." Matt. 12:20c)
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To: Vigilanteman

The 'powers that be' refuse to admit that Visa demand is so high. This would lead to being a measure of how our overall economy is actually doing. If job growth is so much that visa requests are filled as fast as they can be granted it is kind of hard to claim things like 'most jobs lost since Herbert Hoover'.

We have every right to decide as a nation who we let in this country and what they can or cannot do when here. Not to mention the power to tell them to leave at any time.

Mexico indeed needs to grow its own economy. I am all for helping them do so, I am against doing it FOR them.

How about just giving them a fast track North? Canada is only 30 million people or there abouts, I suppose they would be open to millions of immigrants 'looking to do those jobs Canadians won't do'.

Any immigrant that will follow the laws of our nation , including the ones where we decide who can come when and for how long, will melt into society and stop trying to make this country be an extension of their own is fine by me.

It sure seems to me that this nation has lost its way in the area of natural born Americans. It occurs to me that we come last on any list that comes out of our Government.

Spanish is popping up all over around here and my shopping opportunities are drastically lessened as a result. Until such time as Pesos and centavos are our currency, when I see Spanish at the store I simply go elsewhere.


37 posted on 12/01/2005 2:31:35 PM PST by BlueStateDepression
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To: Alex Marko
Which brings us to the more controversial, and promising, part of Mr Bush's plan. To “match willing foreign workers with willing American employers to fill jobs that Americans will not do”, he proposes letting illegal aliens currently in America register for legal status. After paying fines and back taxes, they would then be allowed to work for a fixed period, after which they would have to return home. He insisted that this would not constitute an “amnesty”. Right-wingers said it did. “Now we've finally caught the president in a lie,” fumed Neal Boortz, a talk-radio host.

So if it isn't an amnesty then a Lewinsky isn't sex? My how our Presidents vocabulary differs from Merriam Webster. I didn't know Neal Bortz was a "right-winger", I didn't notice the author calling Ted Kennedy(a democrat from mass) a drunken socialist left winger who started this Immigration mess in 1965, could the author be biased?

38 posted on 12/01/2005 3:02:49 PM PST by rolling_stone (Question Authority!)
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To: rolling_stone
After paying fines and back taxes, they would then be allowed to work for a fixed period, after which they would have to return home.

Bush's lie within a lie: The illegals already "have to return home". Yet no one makes them do so. So who's going to make them return home in the future? Bush?? ROTFLOL!!!

Or maybe Bush is saying, "let me kick this issue at least 3 years down the road, maybe my successor will have more of a spine than me, and will actually enforce something".

Of course, yet another prevarication here is the "fixed period". The only limit is how often (3 years) illegals, if they bother at all, have to get their Bush-visas stamped, but there's no total time being mentioned. What is it 3, 6, 9, 15, 30 years?

39 posted on 12/01/2005 3:14:06 PM PST by dagnabbit (Vincente Fox's opening line at the Mexico-USA summit meeting: "Bring out the Gimp!")
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To: djf
"Let's just ship the illegal immigrants to Iraq!!

Make them conscrips in the new Iraqi Army!

40 posted on 12/01/2005 3:14:41 PM PST by TheLion
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