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To: jwalsh07
What mechanism directs the individual to rationalize an altruistic act by saying to himslef. Ah, this is beneficial to the species so I will lay down my life for my fellow soldier

Nothing says that.

The individual says 'I trusted that individual, and he cheated me; I won't trust him next time'. Or 'I trusted that individual once, and he cheated me, but he has by paying a penalty for doing so, attempted to make it up to me; maybe it is worth while trusting him again'.

That sense being that there is nothing inherently moral in an altrusistic act if one expects reciprocity.

Unless the reward comes in the afterlife, eh?

You're assuming what drives us to be moral is a conscious thought process. But why should it be? Isn't it more likely to be an innate sense of 'justice' or 'forgiveness' or 'generosity' or 'loyalty'. After all; you don't have conscious control of your heart rate; why would you need conscious control of your innate moral sense?

320 posted on 12/12/2005 3:59:46 PM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: Right Wing Professor
After all; you don't have conscious control of your heart rate; why would you need conscious control of your innate moral sense?

Take care here. Freedom is a political virtue. I smell the ghost of . . .

323 posted on 12/12/2005 4:06:25 PM PST by cornelis
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To: Right Wing Professor
Nothing says that.

Yeah, I know.

The individual says 'I trusted that individual, and he cheated me; I won't trust him next time'. Or 'I trusted that individual once, and he cheated me, but he has by paying a penalty for doing so, attempted to make it up to me; maybe it is worth while trusting him again'.

Altruism has always been defined as selflessness which is why the term "reciprocal altruism" makes me laugh. It's an illusion in search of reality. But Orwell would love it.

Unless the reward comes in the afterlife, eh?

After life there is judgement. I believe it, you don't. One of us will be severely disappointed. :-}

You're assuming what drives us to be moral is a conscious thought process.

I'm not assuming it, I know it. I have lived what might be called a relatively long and somewhat interesting life. I've made moral choices and I've made immoral ones that I regret. But each was a conscious act, even those made in the heat of the moment. Did I think about the consequences of diving into a hole in the ice to pull out a young girl? Yes, instantaneously. Any reciprocity involved? Nope. My genes to preserve? Nope.

But why should it be? Isn't it more likely to be an innate sense of 'justice' or 'forgiveness' or 'generosity' or 'loyalty'.

Not in my case. I was taught by my creationist parents that there were moral absolutes. The older I get the more I know they were right.

After all; you don't have conscious control of your heart rate; why would you need conscious control of your innate moral sense?

Here's a true story Prof. Ten years ago, I almost met my maker. Ran too hard, split off a plaque, closed down the circumflex nice and tight. After intervention I was in the CCU where I knew the nurses. To tweak them I would make my heartrate go below the lower limit threshold on the heart monitor. At will. I have witnesses. LOL

339 posted on 12/12/2005 4:36:58 PM PST by jwalsh07
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