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Court of Appeals: Constitution "does not demand a wall of separation between church and state."
American Family Association of Michigan ^ | December 21, 2005 | American Family Association of Michigan

Posted on 12/21/2005 1:12:17 PM PST by AFA-Michigan

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To: SoftballMominVA
"My blood boils every time I hear that phrase because I know that most Americans ASSUME it is in the Constitution."

I knew someone who thought the ACLU was an agency of the U.S. government. :-p

61 posted on 12/21/2005 3:54:35 PM PST by monkapotamus
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To: snuffy smiff
You can get up to snuff here.
62 posted on 12/21/2005 4:03:17 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: piperpilot
"This certainly made my day!"

Mine too! I called everyone I know to tell them about it LOL!!

63 posted on 12/21/2005 4:07:22 PM PST by GloriaJane (http://music.download.com/gloriajane "Merry Christmas To Our Troops In Iraq (My Hero's)")
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To: monkapotamus

The world is filled with ignorance, isn't it?


64 posted on 12/21/2005 4:07:38 PM PST by SoftballMominVA
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To: Noachian

I didn't see this on the CNN web site either. What good are these victories if no one but FReepers know about it?


65 posted on 12/21/2005 4:18:00 PM PST by plain talk
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To: AFA-Michigan

"6th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals Tuesday issued an historic decision declaring that "the First Amendment does not demand a wall of separation between church and state."


Hallelujah!!! Finally, a demonstration from the courts that shows both brains and the chutzpah to call the ACLU liars!


66 posted on 12/21/2005 4:21:30 PM PST by Fruit of the Spirit
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To: Tzimisce

"Atheism: The only religion truly endorsed by the US government."

Not true! It's endorsed by the ACLU, which is not a government entity.


67 posted on 12/21/2005 4:23:09 PM PST by Fruit of the Spirit
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To: Cicero

"All the Constitution says is that "there shall be no establishment of religion." That's very different from a wall of separation. And if Jefferson used that phrase in a letter..."

Jefferson's words were taken out of context to make the point for the ACLU. See http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpost.html


68 posted on 12/21/2005 4:26:16 PM PST by Fruit of the Spirit
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To: Cicero
And at the time it was written, established meant exactly that--that there should be no official, established national church like the Church of England.

Actually, no, it did not. Not in the American context. In fact I don't think there was a single state at the time the Constitution was adopted that had a single establishment, i.e. establishing one and only one church or denomination. They all had either multiple or general establishments. That is either more than one church was recognized as official or received direct government aid (multiple establishment), or there was some scheme along the lines of a religion tax which might be mandatory, but the person paying the tax could determine the church that received it (general establishment).

Single establishments were not the norm even during most of the Colonial era. Even where they existed pro-forma they were soon "multiplized" or generalized de-facto.

Besides, if congress had meant what you say they meant, why didn't they just say so? Why didn't the use the term "national religion" instead of the naked and general term "religion"? The "national religion" language was considered and was rejected. They specifically chose the most general language possible.

69 posted on 12/21/2005 4:26:50 PM PST by Stultis (I don't worry about the war turning into "Vietnam" in Iraq; I worry about it doing so in Congress.)
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To: AFA-Michigan

Praise the Lord and pass the frosted liberals!


70 posted on 12/21/2005 4:27:42 PM PST by Cedric
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To: Stultis

The key word is "establishment." It has a very definite meaning in English and in England.

The constitution doesn't say anything one way or the other about state establishment of religion. It just says there shall be no establishment of religion on the national level.

In the seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries, nearly every European country had an established Church. In England it was the Church of England. In France it was the Catholic Church. There was no Germany, but the various German states all had established religions.

There might be various degrees of tolerance of other religions. In England, even fairly recently, it was customary usage to speak of "church" and "chapel." A stranger might be asked, "Are you church or chapel?" Anglicans have churches, Methodists and others have chapels. Catholics not mentioned in polite society.


71 posted on 12/21/2005 4:42:07 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: AFA-Michigan

Has this got legs??


72 posted on 12/21/2005 4:45:44 PM PST by don-o (Don't be a Freeploader. Do the right thing. Become a Monthly Donor!)
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To: AFA-Michigan


OMG! FINALLY, someone with a brain has interpreted the Constitution the way it was meant to be, now, is there something in there forbidding forming a group known as the ACLU?


73 posted on 12/21/2005 4:51:46 PM PST by rockabyebaby (I'm not afraid to say out loud what the rest of you are afraid to admit.)
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To: An Old Man
From the article: A unanimous panel of the 6th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals Tuesday issued an historic decision declaring that "the First Amendment does not demand a wall of separation between church and state."

I guess someone watched the Brit Hume special on Sunday night. He showed that the "wall of separation" phrase was penned by Thomas Jefferson early in the 1800's. It was incorrectly cited by Justice Black, I believe, which started us down that road.

74 posted on 12/21/2005 4:52:56 PM PST by CedarDave
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To: CedarDave
Point your browser to This site where you will find a short article about this very subject. I have excerpted the first three paragraphs which all speak to your point.

Defining the 'Wall of Separation'
Pat Centner
Agape Press

Thomas Jefferson was a brilliant and prolific writer who waxed eloquent on hundreds of subjects during the years he served as a Virginia statesman and, later, president of the United States. Author of the Virginia Statute for Establishing Religious Freedom, Jefferson's strongly-held convictions on the subject of religious liberty were often misunderstood.

Yet, with all his discourse on the subject, only one time in any of his writings or speeches did Jefferson ever mention the now famous metaphor, "wall of separation between church and state."

Remarkably, this phrase has, in the minds of many, replaced the actual text of the Constitution's First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

One thing about this announcement that needs watching. The decision was made by a panel of judges from the 6th Circuit. If it gets up to the full court, a different opinion could prevail.

In the meantime, have a very Merry Christmass. and may the Peace of Our Lord be with you always.

Semper Fi

75 posted on 12/21/2005 5:14:20 PM PST by An Old Man (USMC 1956 1960)
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To: Analytic
Having read the decision, I am now concerned that the corrupt lawyers of the ACLU may drag this issue into another, higher court, namely, the US Supreme Court (SCOTUS).

The Sturmabteilung is as the Sturmabteilung does. Their failure to move forward with a "progressive" agenda will be blamed on the so-called right-wing takeover of the country.

Too bad that I don't care if a transparently fascistic organization like the ACLUSA, which raced to defend NAMBLA, is worried about.
76 posted on 12/21/2005 5:14:34 PM PST by Das Outsider
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To: AFA-Michigan

by far the best bews I have read today. God bless the 6th Circuit Court.. any chance the 9th Circus will try and up them?


77 posted on 12/21/2005 5:23:03 PM PST by Cinnamon
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To: An Old Man

Old Man is right, of course, that the 6th Circuit decision could be appealed to the full circuit or to the Supremes.

But it's like the Marines assaulting a fortress. The first wave may in fact be repelled, but this is the first time I know of in my lifetime that a federal appeals court even TRIED to breach the wall. It encourages and invigorates the second wave, and so on.

It's offense, rather than having to fight a succession of defensive battles.

Semper Fi to you as well. I did the Army (cause I was too old for the Marines when I enlisted), but my Dad was a WWII Leatherneck, part of a unit that won a Presidential Unit Citation for taking down a Jap Zero on the Day of Infamy with WWI rifle fire. In 2002, I stood on that same street with him.


78 posted on 12/21/2005 5:40:21 PM PST by AFA-Michigan
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To: AFA-Michigan

Wonder if Jay Sekulow was arguing this case.


79 posted on 12/21/2005 5:41:09 PM PST by headstamp (Nothing lasts forever, Unless it does.)
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To: AFA-Michigan
A good occasion to wish everyone a very...

Merry Christmas

80 posted on 12/21/2005 5:48:15 PM PST by Baraonda (Demographic is destiny. Don't hire 3rd world illegal aliens nor support businesses that hire them.)
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