Will they be as comfortable as this one?
Posted on 12/28/2005 12:43:50 AM PST by SDGOP
I suspect that if USA were number one in life expectancy (instead of being on 48th position after Jordan and before Albania) or at least having one of the lowest medical costs among developed countries, then guys like you would not talk about "nuances of the facts" and other spin. Instead you would be bragging loudly.
As about what I want if you wonder - one of two, either having better results or price commensurate with the results. Since I do not care about living 100 years I can settle on the costs on the average European level. Deal?
He lives with his parents.
Shared debt was not a problem in my divorce. /sarc
Money matters were a major reason for leaving my ex ... she was bankrupting me while we were married.
When I left I was paying all the bills, and they were all getting paid on time. My ex and kids got enough for living expenses.
The judge did not like that arrangement, and gave most of my assets to my ex, along with 70% of my net income (I was imputed to make more than I did). This may make it sound like I was low income, but I was not. She was getting $4500/mo in after tax income.
The only debts she got were mortgage and utilities.
The judge assigned all the revolving debt to me.
The judge ordered me not to pay it, because it was not as important as paying alimony. When I did pay it anyways, I got chewed out by the judge because I reduced the value of my estate, which reduced what could be taken from me and given to my ex.
My ex used the cards while seperated to pay for everything, including her attorney, then demanded I pay her legal costs (this was an interesting attempt at a double dip that failed)
In the final decree, I got the judge to assign one of the cards to her for repayment, and had it so stated under the court order. The credit card company refused to take my name off the account or release me from liability.
She got another credit card while seperated that she maxed out and defaulted on. I occasionally get calls from them but clearly have no liability since I never signed onto the card and am protected because it was obtained after seperation and filing.
Since she got the house, and I got a fixed amount of the value, I placed 2 liens on the house. One for my amount, the other for the credit card. She was losing the house to foreclosure, and the only thing that saved me from the credit card companies was that lien. I paid off that card - which was really doing her a favor, but I did it to prevent the credit card companies from coming after me.
The kids left her 3 years ago and moved in with me. Alimony ended 2 years ago. She is now re-divorced (hubby 2) and living off a boyfriend.
My credit is now getting back close to what it was ... around 670 when it used to be 730, after 5 years of hard work. At the low point of the divorce I was around 530 because of all the bills she was defaulting on.
The winners in all this were the lawyers, who combined pocketed $60K in legal fees ... and of course the credit card companies, who got thier money too.
The losers were me (who ultimately paid those fees and alimony and did so by liquidating almost all assets), my ex (who would have been better off with some court ordered financial counselling to go along with the FCS counselling that was required), and my kids (who lost thier college funds and inheritances in addition to thier parents splitting).
This along with the lag in home sales (mainly seasonal, but it has some people spooked), makes for an interesting new year.
A heart-breaking story. As I've been saying, there are legitimate situations for bankruptcy and your friend's sounds like one.
But bankruptcy wouldn't even solve all his problems, although it almost certainly would allow him to keep his home. But this is where we used to depend on private charity to help our neighbors. Once that "job" got taken over by the government, the idea that we pulled together to help our neighbors became less compelling.
It also points out that people should consider disability insurance. Sure, not everyone can "afford" to be insured for every contingency, but then again this situation is terrible also.
I hope your friend gets a favorable decision on his disability request soon.
I know very little about divorce, though find the subject fascinating.
A question: wouldn't it have been better to just "call it a game" before the bitterness reached critical mass? I've asked this question to many people who have been through divorces and none had a really good answer.
My neighbors are a very close extended family. When the married son lost his job several years ago, it took him forever to find another one. He went from making $75K a year to nothing, and any work he did find was contractual and short-lived. They burned through their savings and retirement trying to hold onto their stuff. His parents eventually stepped in to help him hold onto his house (although all their toys disappeared rather quickly).
Then the father had a major heart attack and is out on permanent disability. The parent's income went to roughly 40% of what they originally had coming in, so they couldn't help their son's family anymore. The sister then stepped in, using her retirement and savings to help both the parents and the brother.
Four months ago, after repeatedly complaining of back pains, an x-ray revealed numerous tumors in her breasts. A double mascetomy and additional surgery revealed that she not only had breast cancer, but that it had moved into the bones in her spine. She was let go from her job because she couldn't return to work at the end of her medical leave (she's still on chemo and fighting for her life), and now has no job and trying to pay for COBRA medical insurance.
I fully expect all of them to declare bankruptcy, not because they were foolish, but because they tried to help each other out and then got slammed with medical bills.
Dickens is really great. You can find plenty of good stuff in his work. For example this passge from Oliver Twist (Chapter 2 "Treats of Oliver Twist's growth, education, and board.)":
The members of this board were very sage, deep, philosophical men; and when they came to turn their attention to the workhouse, they found out at once, what ordinary folks would never have discovered -- the poor people liked it!
It was a regular place of public entertainment for the poorer classes; a tavern where there was nothing to pay; a public breakfast, dinner, tea, and supper all the year round; a brick and mortar elysium, where it was all play and no work.
"Oho!" said the board, looking very knowing; "we are the fellows to set this to rights; we'll stop it all, in no time." So, they established the rule, that all poor people should have the alternative (for they would compel nobody, not they), of being starved by a gradual process in the house, or by a quick one out of it.
With this view, they contracted with the water-works to lay on an unlimited supply of water; and with a corn-factor to supply periodically small quantities of oatmeal; and issued three meals of thin gruel a day, with an onion twice a week, and half a roll on Sundays.
They made a great many other wise and humane regulations, having reference to the ladies, which it is not necessary to repeat; kindly undertook to divorce poor married people, in consequence of the great expense of a suit in Doctors' Commons; and, instead of compelling a man to support his family, as they had theretofore done, took his family away from him, and made him a bachelor!
There is no saying how many applicants for relief, under these two last heads, might have started up in all classes of society, if it had not been coupled with the workhouse; but the board were long-headed men, and had provided for this difficulty. The relief was inseparable from the workhouse and the gruel; and that frightened people.
For the first six months after Oliver Twist was removed, the system was in full operation. It was rather expensive at first, in consequence of the increase in the undertaker's bill, and the necessity of taking in the clothes of all the paupers, which fluttered loosely on their wasted, shrunken forms, after a week or two's gruel. But the number of workhouse inmates got thin as well as the paupers; and the board were in ecstasies.
There's something very odd going on in the economy. Two months ago a Wall Street type leaned over his cocktail very earnestly and said, "Do you know the average salary in America is around $30,000?"
Uh yeah...
But I've been mulling this for awhile. Not the salary stat, but his surprise.
Dickens never fully recovered from his family going broke and sending him to work as a child. Even in his American Sketches he felt compelled to write about the poor...
Do we get to say, "She milked him dry."
My dog's been preapproved many times for both Discover and Visa. A couple of years ago, I noticed a real upswing in telephone soliciters, so I started putting magazine subscriptions in the dog's name. Shortly thereafter the offers started pouring in. Before the Do Not Call list was invented, whenever someone would call and ask to speak to the dog, I'd always tell them the truth and the responses would be hysterical.
One guy said he'd preapproved dead people and babies before, but as far as he knew we were his first dog.
Will they be as comfortable as this one?
self ping
There's some truth in that, clearly, the kindly old doctor in the Norman Rockwell paintings is pretty much gone, but a comprehensive solution to the coming health care crisis will require changes in practically every aspect of the way medical care is delivered. Certainly, society is not better off by a bunch of lawyers making megabucks while their clients get screwed a second time. Insurance companies that spend incredible sums on trying to exclude people and procedures are not delivering health care to by these practices.
I hate to admit it, but this situation might just have evolved into a natural monopoly situation, and that means government steps in. I see it as inevitable, and I'd rather have Republicans drawing up the plans, as opposed to President Rodham.
He lives with his parents.
Ok, so he doesn't go bankrupt, but let's assume that he's back to living with Mommy and Daddy because he doesn't make enough money for his own place. That means child support payments of a fairly lowered amount, and that makes it tough on the ex wife, who still has the burden of raising his kids, presumably with less money than his paycheck provided the household. She might be the one filing for bankruptcy.
True, those who get help from family are less likely to seek bankruptcy, but clearly, everybody getting a divorce doesn't have that resource.
They offer cards to people who are having credit difficulties, or even those who are already on a credit repayment plan through a credit counseling service. Not smart.
I used to work for a major credit card issuer and you'd be surprised what people do before they file. A semi-famous network news lady went out and spent thousands and Victoria Secret and a Georgio Armani boutique and then filed bankruptcy the next day. Whenever we'd come across a famous person's account we would scan their purchases and payment behavior.
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