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Civil war erupts over Confederate handbags
DFW ^ | January 6, 2006 | JIM DOUGLAS

Posted on 01/06/2006 12:05:39 PM PST by stainlessbanner

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If the war was over slavery, why did thousands of Southerners fight barefooted, armed with squirrel rifles, in freezing weather so a few rich folks could keep their slaves? It was much more than slavery.


141 posted on 01/06/2006 1:23:27 PM PST by neal1960 (This space for rent.)
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To: VRWCmember
While they celebrate Cinco De mayo
142 posted on 01/06/2006 1:23:28 PM PST by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: LexBaird

I wouldn't go so far as to say he achieved his goal; I haven't read the book and don't plan to. You?


143 posted on 01/06/2006 1:23:30 PM PST by Froufrou
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To: varina davis
The War of Northern Aggression was not lost and there was no official surrender by the CSA.

Were you typing this as you were hiding out in your bunker? Get a frickin' life.

144 posted on 01/06/2006 1:24:22 PM PST by My2Cents (Dead people voting is the closest the Democrats come to believing in eternal life.)
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To: Getsmart64; blaquebyrd
M'kay gotta jump in here.

Most people seem to have missed the point about spending 3K for a slave just to kill them.

My aunt's family were slave owners in Alabama during the Civil War. Had a town named after them and all that.

At the end of the war when the slaves were freed, the family moved to Texas. The slaves went with the family because they had nowhere else to go. They were given land by the family in Texas and still worked for them.

My aunt said that she had been told about it because as a young girl she always remembered an elderly black man being at all the gatherings. He treated her like his one of his grandkids. The comment was made once by him... "I have black children and white children, you one of my white ones". She said she never gave it much thought until later.

Then later, her mother explained the workings of it all. That this man had been born during the trek from Alabama to Texas. Since they owned the slaves they were responsible for them. Food, clothes, housing the works. When the slave was too old or unable to work the family had a moral obligation to care for them until their natural death.

This particular man in his later years didn't want to live with his children so he went to live with my aunt's relatives, his white children, as it were. Apparently my aunt's grandfather was something of a harda$$ and the son of the slave (who worked for him for a wage) was the buffer between the grandfather and his sons.

Hope that's not too confusing.

The other thing that people, particularly shrieking liberal people, tend to forget is that most people were too poor to own slaves. My aunt tells this MUCH better.
145 posted on 01/06/2006 1:24:47 PM PST by Jaded (The truth shall set you free, but lying to yourself turns you French.)
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To: blaquebyrd
"So you think the slaves would have rather continued to work for free vs earning a paycheck? You can't be that ignorant. Reasoning like that would make Saddam proud."

But I'm a slave half of every year, having to work for free for almost six months just to pay my taxes. Where's our abolitionists?? When will we be set free?
146 posted on 01/06/2006 1:25:30 PM PST by Main Street (Stuck in traffic)
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To: Blzbba

There are no KFC's north of Dixie?


147 posted on 01/06/2006 1:25:38 PM PST by varina davis
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To: PMCarey

"I suggest you read a very fine volume, "Lincoln's Virtues", on the development of Lincoln's moral code and viewpoint prior to the Civil War."

I will do that, thank you. I really don't want to lose site of the Lincoln I grew up knowing.

The way things are in education, I just don't know where to cut the wheat from the chaff. I was in college before I found out the whole cherry tree thing with Washington was just 'propaganda.' LOL.


148 posted on 01/06/2006 1:25:44 PM PST by Froufrou
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To: Froufrou
Fly the stars and stripes high on Indian reservations and schools, whats a little genocide when it comes to old glory.
149 posted on 01/06/2006 1:25:54 PM PST by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: stainlessbanner
No complaints from students, faculty, etc.

No, but it was probably spotted by the attorney for the school board, who then fired off a message to the principal PDQ.

150 posted on 01/06/2006 1:27:06 PM PST by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: varina davis

"There are no KFC's north of Dixie?"


I don't know. I try not go north of Dixie.


151 posted on 01/06/2006 1:27:10 PM PST by Blzbba (Sub sole nihil novi est)
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To: stainlessbanner

what an ugly bag


152 posted on 01/06/2006 1:27:50 PM PST by SunnyUsa (No man really becomes a fool until he stops asking questions.)
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To: Blzbba

check this out:

http://www.warchronicle.com/terrorwar/historiantales/autumnofwar.htm


Hanson's An Autumn of War is a collection of essays written from 11 September 2001 to 22 December 2001. Each is valuable as a record of recent history and as a thought-provoking assessment of the way ahead.

As one example, Hanson writes compellingly of General Sherman and the American way of war. In an article written on 25 September he writes:

Often Sherman's type of war is misunderstood and said to be itself terrorist or inhumane. In that regard, contrasts can be made between Robert E. Lee and Sherman. The former, who wrecked his army by sending thousands on frontal charges against an entrenched enemy and whose family owned slaves, enjoys the reputation of a reluctant, humane knight who battled for a cause—states' rights and the sanctity of Southern soil—other than slavery. The latter, who was careful to save his soldiers from annihilation and who freed thousands of slaves in Georgia, is too often seen as a murderous warrior who fought for a cause—federalism and the punishment of treason—other than freedom.

Lee crafted the wrong offensive strategy for an outmanned and outproduced South that led to horrendous casualties. Yet Sherman's marches drew naturally on the materiel and human surpluses of the North and so cracked the core of the Confederacy with few killed on either side. Lee wrongly thought the Union soldier would not fight as well as the Confederate; Sherman rightly guessed that the destruction of Southern property would topple the entire Confederacy. The one ordered thousands to their deaths when the cause was clearly lost; the other destroyed millions of dollars of property to hasten the end of bloodshed. Yet Sherman—who fought on the winning side, who promised in the abstract death and terror, who was unkempt, garrulous, and blunt—is usually criticized. Lee—who embodies the Lost Cause, who wrote of honor and sacrifice, and who was dapper, genteel, and mannered—is canonized.

The lesson? By attacking the infrastructure of our enemies and thereby saving lives in the long run, we must, as Machiavelli warned, expect not to be lauded, but rather caricatured and even despised as cruel. Sherman also had a keen sense of sociology. In his view, the rich and landowning class of the South had instigated hostilities; yet more often the poor free whites of the Confederacy, who did not own slaves, were dying. In Sherman's view it was far more humane to attack the property of those responsible for the conflict than to end the lives of those who were not. Only that way could the entire population learn the wages of supporting a reckless but impotent Confederate government.

Henry Hitchcock, an officer on Sherman's staff, summed up his general's use of psychological warfare.

Not we but their “leaders” and their own moral and physical cowardice three years ago are responsible. This Union and its Government must be sustained, at any and every cost; to sustain it, we must war upon and destroy the organized rebel forces,—must cut off their supplies, destroy their communications, and show their white slaves (these people say themselves that they are so) their utter inability to resist the power of the U.S. To do this implies and requires these very sufferings, and having thus only the choice of evils—war now so terrible and successful that none can dream of rebellion hereafter, or everlasting war with all these evils magnified a hundred fold hereafter—we have no other course to take.

What can we learn in the present age from General Sherman about the waging of war? The real morality in war hinges not on damage wrought but rather concerns the moral imperative to reduce the number of dead and so end the killing as quickly as possible. To accomplish that goal an army must attack in overwhelming strength and be imbued with a clear moral sense. The presence of sixty-two thousand infantrymen in the heart of the South shocked the citizenry of the Confederacy and prevented various forces under Generals Bragg, Wheeler, and Hardee from offering any defense. Yet the Army of the West wrought such cruel material damage because it believed its cause was just—the South had prompted the war and owned slaves while midwesterners were ending it and freeing the unfree.

In the present context, General Sherman would advise our military planners to use crushing force against our enemies in the Middle East, targeted especially against those who started the war, the personal assets of the terrorists, and the government and military infrastructure of the Taliban and Iraq. And he would urge that we must wage such a full-fledged war constantly with the refrain that an attacked United States was seeking to end terrorism and to overturn the political hierarchy of those guilty illegitimate governments. Cheering in the streets of Arab capitals and posters of bin Laden will disappear only when the ignorant understand the terrible costs of supporting the murderers of Americans. Only with a spiritual element to our battle can a humane society stomach the sheer devastation its army unleashes. “There is a soul to an army,” Sherman wrote, “as well as to the individual man, and no general can accomplish the full work of his army unless he commands the soul of his men, as well as their bodies and legs.”


153 posted on 01/06/2006 1:28:01 PM PST by wallcrawlr (Pray for the troops [all the troops here and abroad]: Success....and nothing less!!)
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To: Getsmart64
I retired in '02 and trust me I'm not using slavery as an excuse for anything. Never have and never will. Like you, I've earned everything I have. I'm proud that my family served this country honorably even when they had to do it in segregated units because the PA farmboy wouldn't, as you say. Don't buy into the stereotypical images you see on TV. We all don't live in N.O.
154 posted on 01/06/2006 1:28:04 PM PST by blaquebyrd
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To: AzaleaCity5691
Try reading this if you think the Civil War was over tariffs.
155 posted on 01/06/2006 1:28:58 PM PST by My2Cents (Dead people voting is the closest the Democrats come to believing in eternal life.)
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To: My2Cents

Awful lot of people died for something they didn't own.


156 posted on 01/06/2006 1:29:49 PM PST by Jaded (The truth shall set you free, but lying to yourself turns you French.)
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To: dpa5923
Oh, I don't think that exact shirt was worn anywhere. I was just using it as an example. I know there have been many examples of crude Bush-bashing clothing and apparel worn in the classroom, but I don't think that kind of wordage has popped up (yet).

A recent story is Student Wins Anti-Bush Shirt Clash, but that shirt was certainly not that vulgar. I didn't mean to suggest such a shirt had been worn before, just that there's an irritating double-standard when it comes to these kinds of things. Sorry for the confusion.
157 posted on 01/06/2006 1:30:06 PM PST by Termite_Commander (Warning: Cynical Right-winger Ahead)
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To: tkathy
Not true as to the idiots, you are living proof they still are amongst us.
158 posted on 01/06/2006 1:30:39 PM PST by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: Ursus arctos horribilis

Why bother when the Mexican flag is way more prevalent here in TX?

Do you have one that says "Viva La Raza?"


159 posted on 01/06/2006 1:31:13 PM PST by Froufrou
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To: Froufrou
Lincoln actually did the Blacks no favor when he 'freed' them so they could work in the northern industrial explosion!

I'm not sure you would get much agreement for this proposition from the Blacks.

160 posted on 01/06/2006 1:31:30 PM PST by CharacterCounts
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