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War on drugs - is it really 'right'?
Newsday ^ | February 12, 2006 | Ellis Henican

Posted on 02/18/2006 6:28:37 PM PST by MRMEAN

Spending billions in taxpayer dollars with no clear progress? Inserting government agents into Americans' private lives? Holding a million men and women in prison for what are mostly nonviolent crimes?

Please, how does any of that promote the values that principled conservatives hold dear?

None of it does, of course.

But now, seemingly all of a sudden, people on the left aren't the only ones expressing doubts about America's war on (some) drugs. Some of America's most energized conservatives - activists and intellectuals on the right - are openly asking, "Isn't there a better way to deal with drug abuse than the old lock-'em-up-forever approach?"

At week's end, thousands of conservative activists gathered in Washington for the annual CPAC, the massive Conservative Police Action Conference, half pep rally and half conservative family reunion. The attendees were regaled with the usual conservative litany - warnings about illegal immigration, attacks on the liberal media, throaty calls for a muscular war on terrorism. Dick Cheney and Karl Rove revved up the crowd.

"Conservatism is the dominant political creed in America," Rove declared approvingly.

But this power group of fired-up conservatives also heard something else, a message that seemed to come as a surprise to some in the sprawling meeting room: pointed and serious questions about America's 35-year campaign to rid the nation of heroin, cocaine, marijuana and other illegal drugs.

Who'd have expected this at a CPAC meeting? Extended comments from the podium by Ethan Nadelman, executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance, a man who has been called the invisible hand of drug reform in America. A former Princeton University professor, Nadelman has guided the national fight for medical marijuana and been a key player in the battle to ease the draconian Rockefeller-era drug laws in New York.

(Excerpt) Read more at newsday.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: dopersthinktank; georgesoros; libertarians; mrleroy; thatsmrleroytoyou; warondrugs; wod; wodlist
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To: winston2

1.5 million arrests and $39 billion tax dollars last year!


341 posted on 02/22/2006 7:47:11 PM PST by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: getsoutalive
No, I said that the markup (mostly to growers who take the largest risks) on cannabis is because of the risks involved due to its illegality.

What costs are these alleged "risks" creating for the clinics? They're operating openly.

342 posted on 02/22/2006 7:57:21 PM PST by Mojave
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To: mugs99
The Drug Lords want drugs to stay illegal.

Oh? The pot "clinics" are endlessly promoting legalization.

343 posted on 02/22/2006 8:00:27 PM PST by Mojave
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To: Mojave
What costs are these alleged "risks" creating for the clinics? They're operating openly.

First, many clinics do not grow their own supply. They must buy from growers who risk jailtime. That is why it costs 300/oz wholesale.

Second, the feds seem to enjoy busting these legal clinics from time to time.

Go figure.

344 posted on 02/22/2006 8:14:43 PM PST by getsoutalive
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To: getsoutalive
They must buy from growers who risk jailtime.

Why would they need to do that?

I thought it was supposed to be so easy.

345 posted on 02/22/2006 8:30:00 PM PST by Mojave
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To: Mojave
Oh? The pot "clinics" are endlessly promoting legalization

LOL!
If the clinics were making the money you claim, they would be paying politicians to legalize it...like the real drug lords pay to keep it illegal.
.
346 posted on 02/22/2006 9:05:55 PM PST by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: mugs99
If the clinics were making the money you claim, they would be paying politicians to legalize it...

Like the Oakland city council? That didn't work.

347 posted on 02/22/2006 9:13:54 PM PST by Mojave
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To: MRMEAN

Yes, it's really right. It takes a social liberal to even want recreational drugs.


348 posted on 02/22/2006 9:14:53 PM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: A CA Guy
It takes a social liberal to even want recreational drugs.


349 posted on 02/22/2006 9:20:40 PM PST by Mojave
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To: Mojave

350 posted on 02/22/2006 9:22:29 PM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: A CA Guy

Is that the Lew Rockwell Child Care Center?


351 posted on 02/22/2006 9:31:13 PM PST by Mojave
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To: Mojave

Could be, but I don't quite see any adults in the picture spitting on the child, so I can't be certain.


352 posted on 02/22/2006 9:32:55 PM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: Mojave

LOL!
They're just following the law the voters passed. You don't support the right of the voters to self determination?
.


353 posted on 02/22/2006 9:47:37 PM PST by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: A CA Guy

ROFL!
Did she drink that bottle of Seagrams too?
Was that the page following 'President Bush Meets With Space Aliens'?
.


354 posted on 02/22/2006 9:52:11 PM PST by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: mugs99
They're just following the law the voters passed.

Nope. Proposition 215 did not allow sales.

355 posted on 02/22/2006 10:18:29 PM PST by Mojave
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To: MRMEAN

I bet you can't see it, but it is precisely that kind of unsupportable hyperbole that makes so many conservatives turn completely off, when any discussion about legalizing drugs come up.

There is virtually no rational argument that could be advanced to support your contention that the "DEA and its agents" are an unconstitutional entity of the U.S. government. The "Necessary and Proper" clause, Art. I, sec. 8, cl. 18, specifically empowers Congress "To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the...powers vested by this Constitution".

And in the case of regulating drugs like heroin and cocaine, there are two types of constitutional powers Congress is "carrying into execution". First, they are enacting anti-drug laws, through the exercise of the power granted them in the "Foreign Commerce" clause (not the "Interstate Commerce" clause), Art. I, sec.8, cl. 3 which grants them plenary authority over all foreign commerce.

The second power they are "carrying into execution" is that of the President's duty to "take care that the laws be faithfully executed" (Art. II, sec. 3), by creating what ever executive agencies, personnel, training or equipment that Congress deems necessary to aid the President in that task.

Nor are there any 9th or 10th Amendment rights "retained by the people" that apply in such a case, since in matters of foreign commerce and foreign affairs, the Constitution grants those powers exclusively to the national government.

Every bit of what I described above follows the Constitution down to the last letter. In no way, is it unconstitutional, as you claim.

356 posted on 02/23/2006 12:59:08 AM PST by Boot Hill ("...and Joshua went unto him and said: art thou for us, or for our adversaries?")
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To: I_BE_THE_ONE
"You live in a different world."

No, I live in the real world where our drug laws are working much better than Prohibition did. Maybe you can explain why you feel differently, rather than firing off one line repartees.

357 posted on 02/23/2006 4:46:12 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: mugs99
"If drug use decreased 60% from 1979, how could there possibly be 1.5 million illegal drug arrests last year?"

There's about 20 million drug users and we're only arresting 1.5 million of them. Plenty of room to decrease the number of users and increase arrests.

"You guys told us that teen use of marijuana would skyrocket in California if we passed the medical marijuana initiative."

So when you say illicit drug use increased, you're going by what some people said would happen? Why aren't you using actual facts instead?

"You still have not shown a decrease in anything that can be attributed to the Sin War."

Then you would have to believe that ending the "Sin War" would not increase the use of drugs. You may be the only one who believes that.

"The Commerce Clause of the Constitution now trumps the Constitution itself. That was done to enforce marijuana prohibition."

One question for you. Are you saying that Congress does not have the power to regulate the commerce of drugs between states?

358 posted on 02/23/2006 5:15:22 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: winston2
The total U.S. illicit drug market is about $60B. Marijuana represents about $10B of that.

Legalize marijuana and you still have $50B of "underworld smuggling, killing and laundering U.S. currency".

Unless, of course, you are proposing the legalization of ALL drugs. Are you?

359 posted on 02/23/2006 5:30:01 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: winston2
You're confusing liberty with anarchy, as evidenced by the fact that you refuse to even consider the "real-life legalization" that I mentioned. You wish to pursue your selfish and hedonistic use of a recreational drug as a pursuit of happiness instead of an exercise in liberty.

Liberty carries with it responsibility. What's responsible about smoking a drug to get high? What's "free" about being hooked on drugs?

You're acting as though you live on an island and that your actions have no effect on the rest of society. Every day we see the impact of alcohol use. Why would I want to add another legal drug to the mix?

360 posted on 02/23/2006 5:49:22 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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