War on drugs - is it really 'right'?

Newsday ^ | February 12, 2006 | Ellis Henican

[robertpaulsen]

"If MJ were legal for anyone to grow for personal use in all 50 states, where exactly do you see the criminal element coming in?"

Coming in? They're already here. You mean 'remaining', don't you?

A) Exporting it illegally to other countries where it remains illegal.

B) Growing it to sell to U.S. underage smokers, which represent a large share of the marijuana market. It's currently at 30% and would probably grow.

C) Establishing a tax-free black market (as they're now doing with cigarettes). Many legalizers on this board wish to "legalize marijuana and tax the hell out of it", IIRC.

D) With marijuana legal and cheap, they can give it away to introduce their users to the harder and more profitable illegal drugs.

[robertpaulsen]

"If our government decided in the future that tomatoes caused health problems such as peptic ulcers due to the high acid content present in tomatoes and made tomatoes illegal, wouldn't that create an illegal market for tomatoes?"

You bet it would. A much smaller market. Which is the point, yes?

[Supernatural]

You tell'em, Mugs. (But they won't hear you).

[mugs99]

Drug use declined. By 60% from its peak in 1979.

ROFL!!!
You can't spin your way out. All drug use, legal and illegal, declined. If you factor out the legal drug use decline, you find that heroin, cocaine and amphetamine use increased.Those are the facts, not the 60% illegal drug use decline pulled out of thin air.

That's 60% less kids doing drugs. That's worth the one-half of one percent of the federal budget being spent on the WOD

Bogus claim. The drug use decline was based on all users of all drugs, including alcohol and tobacco. Illegal drug use increased!

Were is your evidence that proves any drug war success that justifies the expenditure of billions of tax dollars?
.

[robertpaulsen]

"Drug use does not in and of itself harm anyone else"

Neither does speeding. Neither does shooting a gun in a crowd. Neither does drunken driving. Neither does viewing child porn.

Are you suggesting that we also legalize these activities and if someone then commits an act that does harm someone, that act should be punished?

[robertpaulsen]

"Problem is, druggies seem to have a very difficult time maintaining "privacy". Strangest thing."

1.5 million drug arrests last year, and I bet not many of those were in private with their windows closed.

[mugs99]

But they won't hear you

I know. The Crusaders are a superstitious lot...Reason and fact means nothing to them. We no longer allow witch burning so they only have drug users to persecute.
.

[robertpaulsen]

"Washington grew Cannabis Indica"

"By 1799, when George Washington died, there were 316 slaves living on his estate."

So, you got a point?

[mugs99]

"By 1799, when George Washington died, there were 316 slaves living on his estate."

ROTFLMAO!!!!
I asked you for evidence that shows any success that justifies the spending of billions of tax dollars on your crusade.
This is your response?
Back to Frogland, Crusader!
.

[Supernatural]

Their arguements are lame. Certain of them I won't even waste my time responding to anymore. They never answer your questions and go on to some other "fact" that they point out to you. They call everyone "druggies" and I guess they are experts on MJ without ever having so much as take one toke.

They think MJ is the same as cocaine or herion.

ROFLMAO!

[mugs99]

Yeah, they are lame but they keep me laughing!
Notice how their debate always turns just plain silly when they can't defend their position with fact....Frogs and slaves. ROFL!
.

[Supernatural]

Don't bother them with facts.

Their minds are made up!

[robertpaulsen]

"The one thing I am sure is that our drug laws are working no better than prohibition did."

You're sure of that?

Alcohol use was at its lowest at the start of Prohibition, and increased every year of Prohibition. Drug use dropped 60% from its peak in 1979, and has remained relatively flat for the last 15 years.

Prohibition lasted 13 short years before being repealed. Drugs have been illegal in this country for almost 90 years, with no end in sight.

"A substantial portion of the population does not support the laws as is evidenced by the number willing to risk going to jail by using them."

Drugs are used by about 7% of the population. Those who go to prison for drugs are mostly traffickers or dealers.

[Supernatural]

I now see an arguement that says, "Legalize it and use will drop". LOL

[robertpaulsen]

Are you looking for perfect liberty or real-life legalization?

Legalized marijuana may end up being limited in THC content, available only to those 25 and older, and taxed (by all levels of government) at $200./oz.

Such may be the price of legalization.

[mugs99]

LOL...
That's a good argument that can be backed up with fact in the case of marijuana!

[Supernatural]

Listening to the lame arguements from those in la-la land in a lot of fun, isn't it? LOL

[AxelPaulsenJr]

You still wasting time trying to convince these dope pushers? Give it up, a real waste of time and effort.

[robertpaulsen]

"All drug use, legal and illegal, declined."

Some more than others.

"If you factor out the legal drug use decline, you find that heroin, cocaine and amphetamine use increased"

Heroin use (%) has been flat. Cocaine use dropped 70% (from 2.6% to .7%). Marijuana use dropped 64% (from 13.2% to 4.7%). ALL illicit drug use dropped 60% (from 14.1% to 5.9%).

Yes, alcohol use also dropped, but only by 20% (from 63% to 50%).

"Illegal drug use increased!"

Bull$hit. Prove it, bucko.

[getsoutalive]

Are you looking for perfect liberty or real-life legalization?

You asked me if the clinics were able to source supply at $2/oz and I explained why they could not.