Huge crowds extend Darwin exhibit in New York

Yahoo ^ | 3-22-06 | N/A

[Central Scrutiniser]

Huge crowds extend Darwin exhibit in New York

Wed Mar 22, 2:54 PM ET

NEW YORK (AFP) - A monumental Charles Darwin exhibition in New York has been extended by five months amid an overwhelming public response to what was touted as a scholarly rebuke to opponents of teaching evolution in US schools.

The American Museum of Natural History said Wednesday that nearly 200,000 people had visited "Darwin" since it opened three months ago.

Originally slated to close at the end of this month, the exhibition will now run through August 20, said museum spokesman Joshua Schnakenberg.

"Darwin" had opened amid furious debate in many school districts over the teaching of the 19th century naturalist's evolutionary theory and the first trial on the teaching of the God-centered alternative favoured by many religious groups, "intelligent design," or ID.

That trial, in Pennsylvania, ended in defeat for the evangelical right with the judge in the case decrying the "breathtaking inanity" of the school board in the town of Dover which backed the concept that nature is so complex it must be the work of a superior being.

"Our conclusion today is that it is unconstitutional to teach ID as an alternative to evolution in a public school science classroom," the judge said in his ruling in December.

An early section of the New York exhibit is devoted to the question, "What is a Theory?" and seeks to clarify the distinction between scientific theories and non-scientific explanations about the origins and diversity of life.

"This is really for the schoolchildren of America. This is the evidence of evolution," said the exhibit's curator, Niles Eldridge.

In a Gallup poll released last October, 53 percent of American adults agreed with the statement that God created humans in their present form exactly the way the Bible describes it.

Thirty-one percent stood by the "intelligent design" stance, while only 12 percent said humans have evolved from other forms of life and "God has no part."

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"In any event, I am dropping this one, because I AM geting bored with it and have other threads I want to address."

You forgot the part where your claims were demolished.

"You obviously are more frightened of your children being corrupted more than I care about their minds being expanded. I will go away and drink my poison and stop corrupting your youth now. ;)"

Is that a promise? :)

[balrog666]

Didn't we have a previous DU-troll using the phrase "Newton's Laws of Thermodynamics"?

[Ichneumon]

I must say, I am suprised that there are so many people who are scared of their children being exposed to various ideas,

Indeed:

some of which are purely speculative.

I have nothing at all against children being exposed to various "speculative" ideas, as long as they are presented *as* speculative ideas. The problem with "ID", however, is that it's a speculative idea that dishonestly wants to be taught as if it were an established field of science, which it most certainly is not. They want ID to disingenously be presented in a way that accords it the respect which established science has, without actually having done anything to *earn* that respect.

Worse, much of what has been suggested as an "ID curriculum" is actually just science-bashing propaganda, comprised of falsehoods, misrepresentations, and "spin".

This goes far beyond just exposing kids to "speculative ideas", it's an outright propaganda campaign, it's a Big Lie.

I would have thought that those who were confident in their beliefs would be unafraid of having their beliefs challenged... but history has shown that to be untrue time and time again, and a lot of brilliant minds went to the stake for it, so I do not know why I expected any greater enlightenment in thought now.

Yes, the anti-evolutionists don't seem very confident of their beliefs at all, that's why I keep seeing so many posts about them wanting to yank their kids (and everyone else's kids) out of public schools so that they'll no longer be exposed to evolutionary biology and other fields of science which scare them.

[js1138]

Yes. That's why I noticed it so quickly. I also recall that it is a common mistake. Google turns up 600 pages on the phrase.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"sure I promise. It puts me in good company, men like Socrates and Copernicus.. and places you into the catagory of the other guys who were so frightened of opposing ideas that they wanted them dead."

Copernicus killed himself? That's news. Who wanted him dead?


BTW, your melodramatic hysterics are very amusing. I am not stopping anybody from believing whatever they wish. Theology doesn't belong in a science class; creationism/ID is not science. Evolution is. Deal with it. Or else I'll summon the powers of Newton's Laws of Thermodynamics and smite thee! :)

Don't Freepmail me again, unless you want it posted again.

[donh]

In any event, I am dropping this one, because I AM geting bored with it and have other threads I want to address. You win, protect your kids from "dangerous" ideas all ya like. I do not care about the subject enough to dehate it further.

Most folks who come unarmed to a gunfight get bored with it pretty quick.

Regarding your point about the relative likelihood of hummingbirds humming the 5th Symphony, and DNA--you are refuting comic book science. Modern biology does not propose that DNA, cellularity, or any other complexly related machinery in the biological toolkit sprang into existence overnight due to lightning bolts in mudpuddles, or any other form of instantaneous miraculous tinkering. So the odds calculations you have been proudly refusing to provide are irrelevant. You are not refuting anything science is proposing.

[js1138]

If I may interject an off-topic comment, I tend to agree that teachers treat some topics as if they were written in stone by God. this is nothing new.

My fourth grade teacher (1954) had lost her son in WWII and would seldom let a week go by without assuring us that the only good Jap was a dead Jap. This woman spent her summers traveling the world.

One of my son's teachers assured him that snakes do not have bones.

I could mention a couple of other stories, but my point is I believe people when they say teachers frequently fail to mention that scientific knowledge is subject to update and correction.

[RHINO369]

" btw: how is your alchemy class coming? Turn any lead into gold this week?"

No but I'm pretty sure some Iranians are turning U238 into Pu239.

[AnnoyedOne]

220+ posts in the thread, nearly a third of them mine, and I got bored with it "quickly"?
ROFLMSAO.

Have a nice day. (snicker)

[donh]

One of my son's teachers assured him that snakes do not have bones.

Snakes gots bones? My favorite, and it's incredibly common, is that if the earth stopped spinning, we'd all fly off. because it's the centrifugal force acting on the air column over our head that holds us down. That's what we get for letting people with ed. degrees teach.

[Virginia-American]

...I am suprised that there are so many people who are scared of their children being exposed to various ideas...

There's nothing wrong with teaching ID. The problem is pretending it's science, and pretending that there is substantial scientific doubt about evolution.

For example, it's an interesting case study when studying the history or philosophy of science.

I would have thought that those who were confident in their beliefs would be unafraid of having their beliefs challenged... but history has shown that to be untrue time and time again, and a lot of brilliant minds went to the stake for it...

A relevant example here is Lysenko having Vavilov sent to the Gulag and then executed. Vavilov's crime was being a geneticist and Darwinist. He had the courage to say that real science showed that Lysenko was full of it.

...confident in their beliefs would be unafraid of having their beliefs challenged...

You seem to be confusing "belief" and "knowledge".

As I see it, the main belief on the evolution side is the belief that the scientific method of observation, measurement, theory testing, etc, leads to reliable knowledge.

Creationists challenge this, by postulating that the Bible, Koran, or whatever scripture or revelation they believe in has some sort of veto.

It is known (beyond a reasonable doubt) that at least some creationist claims (like the 6000-year-old Earth, or the story of Xenu and the Thetans) are false, so their method of arriving at knowledge is not reliable.

ID-ists, on the other hand, pretend to honor the scientific method, but they make claims without backing them up with observations. For example, the claim of "no transitional fossils". Again it is known (beyond a reasonable doubt) that there is a steady progression of fossil forms going from Hyracotherium (aka Eohippus) to modern horses, asses, zebras, etc. IF you're going to challenge this, you need some contrary evidence, not just an empty claim that "you weren't there" or "we can't be 100% sure", or whatever.

There is no coherent theory of ID; who did what, to what, when, how, none of these are specified. There is no observation that could test such a vacuous hypothesis.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"ROFLMSAO. Post it all ya want. Your "You promise?" thing was assinine (sic), simple as that."

As was your drama queen melodramatics.



"And yeah, Socrates was forced to drink pison(sic), killing himself, by others who thought he was corrupting the youth. Try cracking open a history book and educating yourself."

I said Copernicus, not Socrates. You claimed both were persecuted and killed themselves. You said,

"sure I promise. It puts me in good company, men like Socrates and Copernicus...and places you into the catagory(sic) of the other guys who were so frightened of opposing ideas that they wanted them dead."

I responded with:

" Copernicus killed himself? That's news. Who wanted him dead?"

Don't know who you think you are fooling, as I posted the whole freepmail. I never mentioned Socrates.



"I merely freepmailed it because I figured you would prefer to keep a personalized comment and the response to it to yourself, since I did not figure you would like to advertise your stupidity and I did not intend to do it for you.. call it courtesy."

Now that's a good joke!

"Ya wanna post it, and this one, in open forum, be my guest. I have no problems with it if you choose to advertise your ignorance. But with your response about Socrates, you already have advertised it, so knock yourself out. ;)"

As I CLEARLY said Copernicus, you are the one making the fool of themselves. :)

Now, stop freepmailing me or I'll smite you with Newton's Thermodynamic Whammy. :)

[Virginia-American]

[Google search for Newtonian Thermo]

Did you notice that some of the Google hits were **term paper services** ?!

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Oh and further, to clear up your question about Copernicus.. no, he was not forced to suicide.. but he was wanted dead, by the RCC. Once again, get a history book.

have a nice day."

Um, no he wasn't. He was never even threatened, by anybody. Please, stop this. You are embarrassing all FReepers.

[balrog666]

Ah yes, nice try at an only slightly veiled ad hominem attack. Someone disagrees with you therefore it must be someone from DU. I have never been there, I have heard about them quie a bit, but I somehow doubt many over at DU want any sort of mention of a possible creator in our schools. I am not even sure what DU actually stands for or where they would be located on the net, though I am sure I could find it if I were interested. I think your position on any mention of a creator in a school is probably much more in line with the liberal agenda than mine is, by far. The resistance I have met here with regards to the topic is something I would have expected among a bunch of liberals.

Actually I was pointing out that your ignorance has not gone unnoticed although I was not even the first to notice it. I was also insinuating that, from the unusual (and nonsensical) phrase you employed, you are likely a previously banned unperson, or one of their stooges, bent upon a mission of ad hominem spewing, Creationism-spamming, and general thread-disruption.

Of course, I could be wrong ... you just might be an honest liberal (gasp) engaging in some projection while sending love notes.

[donh]

220+ posts in the thread, nearly a third of them mine, and I got bored with it "quickly"? ROFLMSAO.

220 posts is some big triumph? You haven't been hanging around these evo threads very long,have you?

220+ posts, full of strange metaphysical conceits and pseudo-scientific arguments, and when you finally get some folks dander up enough to begin formulating concrete counter-arguments and questions, you sarcastically declare yourself the winner as you dodge for the exit. A proud day for your team, eh?

[patriot_wes]

"This is really for the schoolchildren of America. This is the evidence of evolution," said the exhibit's curator, Niles Eldridge.

Adolph Hitler said….”Let me control the textbooks and I will control the state. The state will take youth and give to youth it’s own education and it’s own upbringing. Your child belongs to us already….what are you?”

[balrog666]

Don't Freepmail me again, unless you want it posted again.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA! Another one of those ...

I got one too. Definitely a DU-setup.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

" you sarcastically declare yourself the winner as you dodge for the exit."

Don't forget, she rather dramatically suggested she would be forced to take the same course as Socrates with the hemlock. I think we should be lenient on her; her problems are a bit deeper than just scientific illiteracy...

[WildHorseCrash]

That's an interesting approach, but the problem that I see it is that impeachment only cures the symptom -- the particular set of board members who buy into the idea that this junk (ID, creationism, etc.) should be taught to children -- and not the disease -- the junk itself.

With impeachment, nothing will prevent another group of dimwits from doing the same thing, requiring another round of impeachments. (Or worse, if the dimwits succeed in getting enough dimwits elected to the legislature to prevent the impeachment.) By going the litigation route, it makes it very clear that the disease is excised, and anyone trying to do it again will be knocked down quickly.