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To: the anti-liberal

"France may indeed try to keep their model, after all people stick with what they know - even when it becomes detrimental to their well being - but what will be truly interesting to watch is how they manage to keep it in the face of the rising tide of islamic muslims in their country with very low tolerance or acceptance for the ways of their host country, seeking sharia law and dhimmis to treat like a sub-class.
Ten, fifteen, twenty years down the pike, will France be recognizable?"

This is a misconception.
Perhaps 10% of the population of France are of North African ancestry; this is true.
However, since the early '90s immigration has been sharply curtailed. There is not a new flood of immigrants comparable to the uncontrolled immigration into the US.
That 10% figure is not being bolstered very much by fresh arrivals. Most of the immigration into France today is not Maghreban - they have no right to come, there is a sea in the way, and there is effort expended to expel them. Primarily, immigration into France now is from Eastern Europe, especially Poland.

So, this 10% who are Maghreban, you have called them "Muslim", but this is only very partly true. Half of them are female. Females in France are French, and free, and because they are French, they vote. Beurettes are noticeably hot; they are not noticeably Muslim, however. They are as likely to have a white boyfriend as an Arab, and Arab men in France are not able to control women as they do in Muslim countries even if they want to.

The element of France's Beur population that is even potentially radical is not 10%, but 5%: the males.

Of them, the older generation, the actual immigrants, were indeed Muslims. But the children? How many of them are radicalized Muslims, how many are "Muslims" the way most French are "Catholic", and how many are secular?

Efforts have been made to analyze this. Most are circumcised, just as most French are baptized. But the percentage who are involved with Islam more deeply than that is much lower.

In brief: 10% of the French population is probably of North African origin, but only about 4% are really practicing Muslims, half of them women and innocuous. As Beur children proliferate, Islam does not perforce proliferate with them. Elsewhere, I made the point that France is the only country with a large population of practicing HETEROSEXUAL teenage Muslim boys. In the rest of the Muslim world, teenage boys are reduced by social restriction to diddling with Ahmed down at the wadi. If France, teenage boys, of whatever religion (or lack thereof). Very few teenage boys in France are willing to give up girls for God by any name.

The banlieux disturbances showed the degree of integration into French values of the Beur youths: they burnt cars and demanded social inclusion and jobs. Contrast that with MUSLIM actions everywhere else, which involve bombs, dead people, and demands concerning religion. There was none of that in the recent unrest.

So, if you see Sharia 2050 rising in France, you're very much mistaken. That may be developing in England, but not in France. In France, the problem is different.


40 posted on 04/03/2006 9:58:21 AM PDT by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: Vicomte13
Well, you certainly make it sound much more promising than it appears to a bystander.

I still find their social policies a bit self-defeating, but time will tell how that goes - especially given the increasing trend of interdependent globalization.

Personally, I believe there is a flux between socialism and capitalism in which there is a constant striving toward an equilibrium point, much like the the supply and demand curves are in constant, mutually adjusting flux toward a constantly fluctuating equilibrium point.

I see socialism as tending to focus on the collective- often at the expense of the individual, with capitalism tending to focus on the individual - often at the expense of the collective.

In an era of increasing globalization, I also believe that neither nor both will be sufficient for the maintenance of a globalized society and that an entirely different approach is necessary.

I have spent the past several years on just this issue, but dare not discuss it on this or any public forum as it would inevitably be misunderstood, and consequently derided.

43 posted on 04/03/2006 10:17:29 AM PDT by the anti-liberal (Hey, Al Qaeda: Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent)
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To: Vicomte13
So, this 10% who are Maghreban, you have called them "Muslim", but this is only very partly true.

I didn't really see the riots a couple of months ago as having much to do with Islam. We're talking about a group of young men who drink, do drugs, frequent prostitutes and listen to the same thuggish type of music as the American underclass. It's tough to find a link between them and Islam, other than that their parents or grandparents came from somewhere in North Africa.

48 posted on 04/03/2006 10:41:52 AM PDT by Potowmack ("In politics, madame, you need two things: friends, but above all an enemy." Brian Mulroney)
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