Posted on 04/28/2006 11:23:02 AM PDT by george wythe
Does a focus on family values demand a tight border to protect Americans from outsiders, or an open-door policy to ensure opportunity to the poor of other nations? It is more important to welcome the stranger or to respect the rule of law?
At a forum Thursday hosted by the conservative Christian group Family Research Council, conservative and liberal religious leaders lobbed Bible verses, unable to agree on what Jesus would do about the nation's nearly 12 million illegal immigrants.
Immigrant advocates warned that a crackdown would harm families and violate Scripture. And a lawmaker leading the charge for tougher enforcement decried the impulse to direct "compassion" at foreigners while ignoring the plight of low-income Americans.
(Excerpt) Read more at khou.com ...
Illegals are building their "American Dream"
On the backs of our wounded veterans! Who are not getting the services they need!
Because the illegals are sucking them up!!
Because the illegals are sucking them up!
Please cut the chuckie schumer like political grandstanding and hyperbole.
Have you not heard of "Reconquista"? If not, you should enlighten yourself about who is doing the coveting..
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Don't forget the cookies and warm milk before bed. Kumbaya..
I'll be watching for pictures of all the wealthy Hollywood pundits and East Coasters regularly providing banquets for them in their huge estates.
This WWJD thing is going well..don't ya think?
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Thank you, that's what I was trying to get at in post 28.
They don't cost Californians 10 billion a year, that's what Californians choose to give them. Texas doesn't have near the budget busting problem as California, because Texas doesn't extend an inordinate amount of social services to illegals.
There is nothing preventing Californian voters from reducing social welfare services to illegals. How can it be stealing, when the Californians choose to give it away?
I just pointed out what Christ commands. I never said I was Christian. I don't feel particularly compelled to give away all my earthly possessions.
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Of course you can. It's much more humane than shooting them.
Perhaps I'm reading the question wrong, but it appears that it's directed at MY conduct, not the ones who have entered illegally.
Clearly, those who enter this country illegally are not following God's will. But what is my role as enforcer?
I don't really have an answer, other than treat them kindly and respectfully. We should help them to become compliant with our laws, and if that means that they have to leave for a time before they can be legally here, well then that makes sense to me.
However, it really surprises me how so many people look upon illegal aliens as sub-humans. Many of them are here in order to better provide for their family. I can respect their goals, but not ther methods.
There won't be any. They go to the Catholic churches here.
These are good. Really good. Just what I've been looking for when the left uses such a hypocritical question.
Thanks to azhenfud, Finop, and SwinneySwitch who posted these:
John 10:1
I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber.
Titus 3:1
Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good,
Exd 20:17
You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor."
So what? Let's now look at the jails.
One perspective if the problem is to recognize God has provided four divinely established institutions for believer and unbeliever alike. Whatever God creates and establishes was performed with perfect judgment and righteousness.
Those four institutions we are revealed in Scripture to be Volition, marriage, family, and national governance.
It should also be recognized that living in violation of these institutions or attacking their basis is merely a losing operation.
With that said, for those nations which followed the will and plan of God, there also exists privileges associated with a client nation status. Whenever a client nation steps away from God, though, cycles of divine discipline are in store for the disobedient nation. If the first cycle of discipline doesn't result in the client nation returning to God, another cycle, seven times more severe is meted out as a second cycle of discipline.
In 2nd and 3rd cycles of discipline, a nation may be subjected to the will of its enemies, but still with opportunity to return to Him and regain favor.
Now with respect to the illegal immigrant, let's be a bit more specific here and refer to illegal immigration from Mexico by an impoverished people seeking more worldly success in the US.
We know from Scripture there are angels who are assigned territories and possibly nations. During the Church Age, humankind works according to the plan of God in assisting with resolving the angelic conflict in the battle of good and evil. Sin has already been resolved as an eternal issue at the Cross. Good and evil, though must be resolved in time. We are instructed to obey legitimate authority.
Part of this obedience is to insure a proper testing of any and all counterfeit advances upon God's plan by the Adversary. Although the results are foreknown, the testing continues.
For the believer and unbeliever, remaining within those four institutions is a safe harbor for man, while that testing continues.
Not respecting the sovereignty of national borders means one has violated the relationship of land with governance as an attribute of the nation. If limited between 2 nations, it means they are joining one another.
As an aside, from the perspective of theological 'Date and Codd' in RDBS Algebra/Calculus we might express this differently. Declaratively, if we look at any and all issues that might be in the middle of testing amongst the angelic host in one nation and now join them to those of a second nation, we've performed a Cartesian Product of those relationships. This means we've opened up a bag of worms that neither nation was probably ready to even begin addressing or identifying, let alone solve righteously, simply by the vast number of relationships being posed.
Next, let's open the door a bit further and allow more nations into the fray. The exponential raising of issues can easily lead to lack of respect for any authority, let alone any single government.
This situation to promote illegal immigration then tends to follow a path of rebellion towards legitimate authority rather than respectful subjection to proper authority. Accordingly, during this Church Age isn't a legitimate course.
Now for a counterargument. No matter what the environment, God has provided a perfect problem solving device for man by the means of faith in Christ. No matter how heinous the situation, if a believer simply obeys God through faith in Him, he will be provided for by God. Not necessarily in a worldly or fleshly fashion, but God has a plan for all of us. There may be many situations where a poor faithful servant of God ventures north of our southern border in accordance with His plan.
Discernment then becomes critical. Not to become too legalistic and worldly, but also not abdicating one of His established institutions for man. As a nation, we might experience a cycle of discipline where His plan results in our losing some land to even our enemies. All the more reason to turn away from disobedience, return to Him and place faith in Him.
Okay...how about:
Deuteronomy 28:43-44:
43 The stranger that is within thee shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very low.
44 He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail.
LOL!! I love it when libertarians selectively quote Scripture.
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