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To: politeia
Show you that illegal immigration lowers wages? It is basic economics (supply and demand) but if you cannot figure it out I will give you a personal example.

But that's only what is seen on the surface. The power of comparative advantage (division of labor) unlock once some people are freed up to pursue other, more productive, line of work. In a relatively short amount of time, additional training and skills are acquired by folks who used to do the more menial tasks and their labor becomes an input for more value-adding production. In the mean time, the real effect of what wages can purchase does increase as prices in the lower skilled pursuits lowers, causing costs to decrease to consumers.

See this and this.

Of course we're no longer talking about basic economics here. But what is basic is that basic economic theory teaches one to look at costs both seen and unsee; opportunity costs, economists call it.

57 posted on 05/03/2006 5:29:17 AM PDT by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
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To: LowCountryJoe
But that's only what is seen on the surface. The power of comparative advantage (division of labor) unlock once some people are freed up to pursue other, more productive, line of work.

No, what you call "surface" is what real people are having to face every day as a result of illegal immigration as evidenced by the example I gave which you blithly dismiss after directly asking for an "example."

And your use of "comparative advantage theory" is not appropriate. This theory was developed in a time when labor was not substituted internationally and it has to do with trade which is not the issue in illegal immigration at all. What is happening now through illegal immigration and outsourcing is substitution of labor both domestically and internationally and this is not "trade" at all. It is merely the creation of a globalized labor market in which wages and living standards are equalized across the world.

The middle class in America would disappear as a result of continuing this policy and American living standards would decline precipitously. Living standards have already declined for the lower and middle classes in America as a result of this labor substitution and no amount of so-called economic "statistics" or studies can refute the actual experience of living and breathing Americans over the past 30 years in this country. I notice that you did not speak to the actual example I provided of illegal immigration reducing wages for Americans.

What Americans are finally beginning to wake up to is that there is a class war shaping up over this immigration and outsourcing debate. Those whose preferred policy is to globalize the labor market are willing to write off an entire class of American citizens as well as the future of our republican system of self-government which requires an independent, self-reliant citizenry which is not dependent on government. The globalist elites are betting on the fact that their wealth will buy them protection from all the bad consequences of their policies on the American economy and society. Proponents of globalism are really opponents of self-government of any one nation which requires borders and a citizenry that sees its future and well being connected to a definable people and place.

You obviously do not believe that flooding the labor market with unskilled illegal labor is a bad thing. We have had this argument before on a thread in 2004 and I see you have not changed your globalist and pro-open borders position over that time. The purpose of America -- the American project so to speak -- is to demonstrate the ability of a people to govern itself, not to achieve the lowest consumer price for goods. Our founders disdained merely “commercial” considerations and considered them to be evidence of “corruption” by which they meant elevation of private interests above the common good. They considered markets and economics as a means to support a virtuous citizenry, not the end of government altogether.

Today, however the "economy" narrowly defined seems to trump all with these globalist political and corporate elites and their view of citizenship is really that of a consumer -- thus Bush's appeal to Americans to go shopping after 9-11. They have a universal belief (or might I say faith) in free trade that verges on the religious -- it is unquestioned. But these globalist elites and transnational corporations really have no allegiance to any particular country or system of government. They are not interested in assuring that your or my grandchildren live in a self-governing society that values all types of liberty. There is a lot more at stake than economics in this debate and it will largely determine whether the American project of self-government prospers or is fatally undermined.

91 posted on 05/03/2006 8:08:20 AM PDT by politeia
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