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To: Vicomte13
"His was a policy speech, not a budget request."

Actually, it's another attempt to succeed at what he's been attempting for several. That's snagged in litigation. Fence proponents have been perversely unsupportive of the fed against the environazis/"human rights" types.

Do you honestly believe that any bill not containing anything about guest workers will be passed by the Senate? We have a razer thin majority, and thanks to Lott and Frist the 2/3 thirds majority problem. Besides, we have a guest worker program in place already.

Also, wouldn't saying we'll discuss things like amnesty after the fence is built sound a little greasy and snakelike to proponents of some amnesty and still outrage the one issue border types? Though it might slow down the forgery industry which is no doubt ready to gear up.

Either way, I agree that we seem to have a political death wish and the House needs to laugh that Senate bill to death and force a commonsense compromise which CAN work. And it would be fat better for the prsident to support it.

2,831 posted on 05/18/2006 8:55:53 AM PDT by cake_crumb (Leftist Credo: One Wing to Rule them All and to the Darkside Bind them)
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To: cake_crumb

"Either way, I agree that we seem to have a political death wish and the House needs to laugh that Senate bill to death and force a commonsense compromise which CAN work. And it would be fat better for the prsident to support it."

I agree that we have a political death wish, and are acting it out.
I agree that the Senate bill is bad, the House bill is better, but I think that there will probably be no compromise at all: the sides are too far apart, and too adamant.
I agree that the President ought to be taking a different stance, but won't.

I think that a compromise that has a sea-to-sea border fence now, with a bipartisan commission to study and propose guest worker programs is the way to dodge the bullet, if it can't be dodged at all.

I suspect that it can't be.

In which case I see clockwork playing out: Border Conservatives will punish Republicans, Democrats will win Congress this year, and the reduced Republican Caucus that comes out the other end will probably be a more conservative rump.

They, then, will have to get together next year and put together a new party platform that brings the Border Conservatives back, so that the party has a chance to win in 2008.

I just think it's too bad that we can't come to our senses now, and the guest worker advocates blink. The Border Conservatives have the better case: illegal immigrants are already illegal. They don't have any right to be here. The guest worker advocates want something, that is clear, but what they are saying is that they are going to refuse to allow effective enforcement of the law unless they get something that will further undermine immigration policy. That position simply does not have the same moral foundation as the argument that the law is being broken and we should enforce it.

But you're right, in the end, that I don't think the guest-worker advocates (I'll call them "WorkerBots") are going to back down either. I think their primary motive is financial, and that's a strong motive. I have a tough time seeing anything PRINCIPLED behind a stance of "No law enforcement unless we get special privileges for business that make lawbreakers legal".

Anyway, I am trying not to be to gloomy. The GOP could still come to its senses and scoop it own. Still, it does seem like a good time for a Dan Rather-ism: "Mabel come in from the kitchen! Our back's against the wall and our shirttail's on fire, but it's not over yet!"


2,851 posted on 05/18/2006 9:24:49 AM PDT by Vicomte13 (Aure entuluva!)
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